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Single Speed Cross Guy
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, Does anyone know or have a Yamaguchi frame?
I would like information on any of his frames, any views would be welcomed.
Regards,
 

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I am a bit fuzzy on Japanese Masters...

I think I recall some reverential words about his work. But, I don't think that I would be overly excited about many of his bikes, especially if we are talking about some vintage stuff if it used Japanese tubing. I say this because I found the Japanese tubing which would have been used was invariably small diameter tubing, thick butted, and was pretty heavy. Later Prestige tubing :wink: was a modest improvement, and at a good price would be decent buy. It would be a solid bike, I would think.
 

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wheel to wheel
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I have no idea what elvisVerde is talking about? :confused:

If the OP is asking about Koichi Yamaguchi (I assume he is), these frames have a great reputation and use state-of-the-art tubing. And, they're built in Colorado.

http://www.yamaguchibike.com/
 

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I have a new "used" one

I just finished building up a Yamaguchi compact made w/ True Temper S3 tubing and an AME Sub 3 fork. If it mattrers the f/f weigh about 4# for a 54TT/45.5ST compact. I took the Yama out on a very short shakedown cruise and I like what I felt but more extensive testing, much to the missus' chagrin, is planned.

The frame is "standard" black w/ yellow decals. I've seen better paint jobs but still it looks pretty good. Filet brazing is outstanding. The down tube flares at the BB and the TT is also shaped.

I think his price is very reasonable, esp for someone who use to build for the U.S. Cycling team.
 

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elvisVerde said:
I think I recall some reverential words about his work. But, I don't think that I would be overly excited about many of his bikes, especially if we are talking about some vintage stuff if it used Japanese tubing. I say this because I found the Japanese tubing which would have been used was invariably small diameter tubing, thick butted, and was pretty heavy. Later Prestige tubing :wink: was a modest improvement, and at a good price would be decent buy. It would be a solid bike, I would think.
Er... Right... Except that Ishiwata 019 and 022 were virtually identical to Columbus SL and SP in every respect - dimensions, materials etc. See:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#ishiwata

For more details.

Later, Ishiwata even created their own version of spline-butted tubing ala SLX and SPX.

Even the inexpensive tubings coming out of Japan in the seventies and eighties were very nice. The Ishiwata "EX" line of seamed tubing, branded as Fuji Valite on Fujis of the day, was of good quality, fairly light, and innovative in it's variably-butted design. If I remember correctly, Ishiwata had different options in the EX lines. Some were 4130 cro-moly, others were chrome-vandium, as was the case with Valite. Tange Infinity taper-butted tubing was quite nice as well. Generally, these tubesets were used with the same diameters as corresponding R531 or Columbus tubesets.

And to call Tange Prestige tubing "modest improvement" is the understatement of the year. It simply kicked a$$ on anything built in Europe or the USA at the time, although True Temper was coming up with some interesting seamed tubing at that point. But, maybe your wink indicated that you were joking about the "modest" part. Hard to tell. In any case, Tange Prestige set the standard for steel tubing of the day, and the "Ritchey Logic" version of Tange Prestige, drawn by Tange to Ritchey's specifications, was even lighter.

Respectfully,

- FBB
 

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fbagatelleblack said:
Even the inexpensive tubings coming out of Japan in the seventies and eighties were very nice. The Ishiwata "EX" line of seamed tubing, branded as Fuji Valite on Fujis of the day, was of good quality, fairly light, and innovative in it's variably-butted design. If I remember correctly, Ishiwata had different options in the EX lines. Some were 4130 cro-moly, others were chrome-vandium, as was the case with Valite.
Oops! I should have said Ishiwata "EXO" tubing. Here is a good link showing the 4130 cro-moly varieties as well as the chrome vandium, or "Magny" varieties.

https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/ishiwata/page-02.jpg

- FBB
 

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Clarification and apologies....

You may have seen the TV commercial about the guy who is always wrong. I feel like that now. I must not post when I am totally wiped-out. Clearly, I was off the mark here by at least 94% Sorry, OP, sorry guys. Sorry Mr. Yamaguchi.

1. I made an assumption (duh) that the OP was talking about a Yama on eBay that I had just looked at. The bike seemed to be ok, but vintage, skinny-tubed, ugly in my eyes, and nothing special. IMO. My whole thought process was focused on that bike. I was tunnel - visioned. Again, Sorry OP.

2. I made an assumption, and I should have been more clear that I was fuzzy on the details, and I was thinking of a frame shop in Japan that I had heard some things about somewhat recently. It was a guy who was making fewer frames these days, if any. I couldn't remember the name exactly. No I'm not being racist, I just forgot. This older bike I had seen just got me thinking... old--vintage--this former frame guy....and so on.I had forgotten learning about that Yamaguchi, who obviously has top cred in the field, and has made bikes worthy of purchase.

3. I made an assumption that the 6 expensive Japanese-tubed bikes I have owned, including my current commuter, and the several others that I rode through the years, were representative of the breed--AND I still think that I am correct. Not that steel bikes in general were featherweights through that era, and the Japanese tubes were well thought of, but in my experience they somehow did not add up to the lightweight high-performance frames they seemed to aspire to be. I realize that the build, the design, the builder all go in to determining how a bike performs, but 6 good frames from different sources is clearly trend-indicative.

4. and, if I may borrow (in form) from the late senator:
I knew Prestige tubing, I rode Prestige tubing, I liked Prestige tubing. It was said to be expensive and therefore, unfortunately, not as common as the clearly lesser tubes of the day. Still, at the time, when I compared my Prestige frame riding experiences to oversized Columbus tubed frame bikes when they appeared, I bought the Columbus frame.



elvisVerde said:
I think I recall some reverential words about his work. But, I don't think that I would be overly excited about many of his bikes, especially if we are talking about some vintage stuff if it used Japanese tubing. I say this because I found the Japanese tubing which would have been used was invariably small diameter tubing, thick butted, and was pretty heavy. Later Prestige tubing :wink: was a modest improvement, and at a good price would be decent buy. It would be a solid bike, I would think.
 

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elvisVerde said:
4. and, if I may borrow (in form) from the late senator:
I knew Prestige tubing, I rode Prestige tubing, I liked Prestige tubing. It was said to be expensive and therefore, unfortunately, not as common as the clearly lesser tubes of the day. Still, at the time, when I compared my Prestige frame riding experiences to oversized Columbus tubed frame bikes when they appeared, I bought the Columbus frame.
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I don't know anything about oversized Columbus steel tubing from that era. What kind of frame did you end up buying? How big were the tubes? I'm guesing they were heat-treated like the Prestige tubing, to make them strong enough for the thinner walls required with oversized tubing. Do you remember the name Columbus gave the tubeset?

Thanks,

FBB
 

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Single Speed Cross Guy
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Buy the Yamaguchi already...
 

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Single Speed Cross Guy
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
did you hear me

buy it.
 
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