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Ok guys and gals I am looking for an online resource to explain in detail how to structure a program. As I understand it you have to ride below approx 150bpm to stay in an aerobic state that burns fat....if you exceed this level you start burning calories but not fat.

Does the body covert fat to replace these calories or do they need to be consumed, also if dieting making recovery longer?

The other concept that if you weigh less it requires less watts to push you faster meaning that as you get in better condition and lose weight you get quicker.

As you can see I have more questions than answers regarding this proposition but it seems to have merit.....

Comments / Suggestions?

Kevin
 

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Ow, ow, ow!

My head hurts everytime the media oversimplifies concepts and then twists them around so they don't make sense anymore!

One of said concepts is that there is a "fat burning zone" for maximum weight loss. Use the Search tool to find the other discussions, where this myth is put to rest.

And the idea that if you weight less it takes less power to push you is true - but only when going up hill, not on flat ground. And going slow won't make you produce more power. Working harder is way to both loose more weight, and increase power.
 

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NeoRetroGrouch
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ksfacinelli said:
Ok guys and gals I am looking for an online resource to explain in detail how to structure a program. As I understand it you have to ride below approx 150bpm to stay in an aerobic state that burns fat....if you exceed this level you start burning calories but not fat.

Does the body covert fat to replace these calories or do they need to be consumed, also if dieting making recovery longer?

The other concept that if you weigh less it requires less watts to push you faster meaning that as you get in better condition and lose weight you get quicker.

As you can see I have more questions than answers regarding this proposition but it seems to have merit.....

Comments / Suggestions?



Kevin
To find a good structured program, you will still have to pay. A good book, a coach, whatever. I recommend Friel's 'Cycling Past 50' (book). You can skip the "past 50" part and get a good, concise, easy (to understand, not do) annual training program based on heart rate. Buy it - use it.

TF
 

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Understanding

ksfacinelli said:
As I understand it you have to ride below approx 150bpm to stay in an aerobic state that burns fat....if you exceed this level you start burning calories but not fat. Does the body covert fat to replace these calories or do they need to be consumed, also if dieting making recovery longer?
Well, you've got the first part COMPLETELY wrong, so let's start with that. During exercise, a conditioned athlete will get about 200 calories per hour from fat metabolism. If you're taking it real easy and burning 400 calories per hour (about 17 mph on the flats, no wind), you're getting around 50% of your calories from fat. If you're going very hard and burning 1000 calories per hour (about 24 mph) then you're getting 20% of your calories from fat. This situation has led some pretty ignorant people to proclaim that there is a "fat burning zone" but as you can see, there is no such thing. And whether 150 bpm is a recovery heart rate would depend on the individual, since people have widely different numbers based on age, fitness level, genetics, etc.

Your second question is fairly confusing and not clearly worded, but I'll take a guess that you're asking whether the body metabolizes fat to replace the glycogen stores that were consumed during exercise. If you don't eat anything, yes, your body will live off its fat stores, along with its protein stores - the latter is called catabolism and your body "eats" its muscles because it thinks there's a famine going on and it tries to save the fat as long as possible. Trying to train hard and lose weight through calorie restriction at the same time is hard on you and typically does result in longer recovery times and reduced performance. For reference, see what happens to Jan Ulrich every year as he tries to ride off a bunch of extra kilograms of stored fat from last winter.
 

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Clyde-o-Matic
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Kerry Irons said:
For reference, see what happens to Jan Ulrich every year as he tries to ride off a bunch of extra kilograms of stored fat from last winter.
So, I think you are implying that my traditional training program (which follows) is spot on with the training program of a Tour de France winner. Man, I never knew I had this training methodology perfected. Either Jan or I should write a book in order to cash in on Jan's fame.

Jan/Rockstar's Top Secret Training Program:

Base Period - Little riding, lots of ice cream, beer, wine, etc. to build a base of 10 kilos. You build your base, I'll build mine.

Oh [email protected], I'm too fat to ride fast Period - Lot's of miles, cut back on food to lose the 10 kilos.

Race Period - Finally at race form but still behind the lightweight bastards.
 

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the one thing to add to Kerry's usual spot-on analysis is why some coaches still recommend fat-burning zone riding. If all you do is ride hard and long, you will ride yourself into the ground. But, you can ride easy for long periods of time. If you ride hard for an hour, you're burning more calories. It comes at high cost, however, to your recovery. If you ride easy for three hours, it may involve very little demand on your recovery resources, and you've still done your aerobic system some good.
With limited time, however, you have to spend relatively more time riding hard. That's just pretty much all there is to it.
 

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Kerry's right on -- all of this "fat burning zone" stuff is a load of hooey.

The only thing it's got going for it is that the pace I at which I burn 500 kcal / hr I can do for 5 hours. The pace at which I burn 800-1000 kcal / hr I can't do for more than an hour. 2500 > 1000.

Losing weight does obviously reduce the denominator of power / weight, but if you're already at an athletic, healthy weight, I think you'll see the most gains from training to increase your power. To what end I'm not sure at this point; depends what you want to do with it.
 
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