It seems that hamstring flexibility is usually measured as part of a fit analysis. How is this relevent? I have extremely flexible hamstrings - I can easily place both palms flat on the ground at my feet without bending my knees. Does this mean I should use a different size frame than others my size, or does it just give me a larger size range that I can use effectively vs someone who is not as felxible?
Fit and flexibility question
KennyG
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It seems that hamstring flexibility is usually measured as part of a fit analysis. How is this relevent? I have extremely flexible hamstrings - I can easily place both palms flat on the ground at my feet without bending my knees. Does this mean I should use a different size frame than others my size, or does it just give me a larger size range that I can use effectively vs someone who is not as felxible?
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As others have said, the main benefit is a lower position on the bike because you are not limited by hamstring flexibility.
I am also extremely flexible in my hamstrings/lower back. With my legs straight I can get my elbows about 6" from the ground.
What this allows me to do is feel very comfortable with a 12cm drop from the saddle to the bar tops...not only that, I spend most of my time in the bar drops (so figure a 25cm drop from saddle to hand position most of the time).
This gives me an almost TT position on the bike and gives better speed on the flats than others around me...or the same speed with less energy expended due to a much more aero position.
After experimenting with frames a lot, I've found that I actually prefer a smaller frame with a lot of drop.
I am also extremely flexible in my hamstrings/lower back. With my legs straight I can get my elbows about 6" from the ground.
What this allows me to do is feel very comfortable with a 12cm drop from the saddle to the bar tops...not only that, I spend most of my time in the bar drops (so figure a 25cm drop from saddle to hand position most of the time).
This gives me an almost TT position on the bike and gives better speed on the flats than others around me...or the same speed with less energy expended due to a much more aero position.
After experimenting with frames a lot, I've found that I actually prefer a smaller frame with a lot of drop.
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How exactly do you go about gaining this kind of flexibility? Do you stretch a lot or are you naturally limber? I have about a 10cm saddle to bar drop, but would like to go lower and thus more aero. I can touch my toes and the floor after I get warmed up, but that's about it. I find that my limiting factor is saddle pressure on the perineum more than any kind of tightness in the back or hamstring. I've never had any kind of back pain, neck pain, or hamstring tightness post ride. Any ideas?Wookiebiker said:
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I'm lucky...I'm naturally flexible. With no stretching at all I've always been able to palm the floor. With just a small amount of stretching I can go way beyond that...which is unusual for somebody my size.tyro said:
As for the saddle and pressure on the perineum, I've found over time that a slightly shorter reach helps because it brings my arms more under my body and allows them to support more of my weight. It also seems to square me up a little so I can still run a more or less flat saddle (maybe a slight drop in the front, but not much.
The other aspect is to get out of the saddle every now and then, but even with that, I spend more time in the saddle than others do.
One last thing...try a lot of different saddles! I've probably gone through 30-40 saddles over time and have finally found one particular saddle that works extremely well for me...It's the women's version of the Selle San Marco Glamour Aspid...It's wide in the back, flat overall, light and just works for me. I've found cut out saddles actually hurt me worse than non cut out saddles...so I stay away from those.
Overall...It's trial and error and getting used to the position, which can take time. I'd suggest slowly moving lower and lower over time. If you have the flexibility, it shouldn't take too long to adjust.
BTW...I'm comfortable with this type of drop on rides of 100 miles +
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Thanks Chewy.Wookiebiker said:
I guess I am cursed with being stiff. I have never been very flexible, no matter how much I stretch. I don't really think that this is my weak point though. I think it is more of the saddle issue. I'm going to start trying lots of saddles and see where I end up. There is a local shop that has a demo program. I'll start on Monday!Flexibility is mostly a God given thing. You can get a little better with streching, but you pretty much have what you have. I don't really stretch all that much, but I can still do the palms on the floor.tyro said:Thanks Chewy.
I used to have problems with saddle discomfort as you do. Have you tried a Specailized Toupe? I have gone to it and my saddle problems are over. You'll need to get measured at a dealer if you want to try one because they come in different sizes.
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Hammy flexibility effects the angle between a straight leg and the back, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a less flexible rider can't get flat - it just looks a little different.
A less flexible rider can acheive a quite aero position by lowering the saddle and moving it back a bit relative to the bottom bracket. Of course, this creates a position with relatively less frame reach or shorter stems, and tends to come with somewhat less drop than the more straight-legged flatbacks, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. And depending on how particular (that is, good) your framemaker and fitter are, it can signal changes to unexpected places like BB drop and chainstay length to incorporate the weight distribution changes this would suggest.
As long as the rider is physically fit enough (ie, not so fat that the pedaling smacks their thighs into their torso) this position can be every bit as aero as the large-drop positions that many wannabes set themselves up with. But the story doesn't end there.
Many amateurs equate 'drop' with aero qualities or some odd relationship to manhood, but it's not necessarily the case at all. Those same riders often have their saddles far higher than they really ought. It's a mistake borne out of the mistaken assumption that the positioning on a TT bike should be followed on a road bike. It's not necessarily so. There is more power available with the 'low-flat', because of the relative usefulness of the range of motion in the legs as relates to the circular motion of the pedal stroke. It also balances one on the bike better, which can provide better aerobic function than a position that requires neck, shoulder, and core tension to hold up so much of the torso weight. Those can easily be a greater gain than the small losses that (may or may not) happen in the aero arena. People often fail to recognize that holding the torso on extended arms is a quite different proposition than holding them on braced elbows.
Of course, that goes the other way, too. Less-fit riders, regardless of flexibility, need to go up and forward to acheive a somewhat aero position that allows their thighs and bellies not to fight one another.
So to the OP, flexibility (in the hammys and elsewhere) can make significant differences to the parameters of a well-fit bike. However, that depends perhaps more on what school of thought on fitting you adhere to. One is based on ergonomics, the other based on mathematics and oddball 'rules of thumb' like that lovable old chestnut, KOPS or what junior Italian racers in the 70's tended to look like.
Even where people are flexible enough, it's a common mistake to have saddles set too high and their weight distributed too much to the handlebars. By this point of view - and the list of 'believers' is not small, and is rather distinguished - hamstring flexibility matters relatively little to a good bike fit, but matters a lot in a poor one.
A less flexible rider can acheive a quite aero position by lowering the saddle and moving it back a bit relative to the bottom bracket. Of course, this creates a position with relatively less frame reach or shorter stems, and tends to come with somewhat less drop than the more straight-legged flatbacks, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. And depending on how particular (that is, good) your framemaker and fitter are, it can signal changes to unexpected places like BB drop and chainstay length to incorporate the weight distribution changes this would suggest.
As long as the rider is physically fit enough (ie, not so fat that the pedaling smacks their thighs into their torso) this position can be every bit as aero as the large-drop positions that many wannabes set themselves up with. But the story doesn't end there.
Many amateurs equate 'drop' with aero qualities or some odd relationship to manhood, but it's not necessarily the case at all. Those same riders often have their saddles far higher than they really ought. It's a mistake borne out of the mistaken assumption that the positioning on a TT bike should be followed on a road bike. It's not necessarily so. There is more power available with the 'low-flat', because of the relative usefulness of the range of motion in the legs as relates to the circular motion of the pedal stroke. It also balances one on the bike better, which can provide better aerobic function than a position that requires neck, shoulder, and core tension to hold up so much of the torso weight. Those can easily be a greater gain than the small losses that (may or may not) happen in the aero arena. People often fail to recognize that holding the torso on extended arms is a quite different proposition than holding them on braced elbows.
Of course, that goes the other way, too. Less-fit riders, regardless of flexibility, need to go up and forward to acheive a somewhat aero position that allows their thighs and bellies not to fight one another.
So to the OP, flexibility (in the hammys and elsewhere) can make significant differences to the parameters of a well-fit bike. However, that depends perhaps more on what school of thought on fitting you adhere to. One is based on ergonomics, the other based on mathematics and oddball 'rules of thumb' like that lovable old chestnut, KOPS or what junior Italian racers in the 70's tended to look like.
Even where people are flexible enough, it's a common mistake to have saddles set too high and their weight distributed too much to the handlebars. By this point of view - and the list of 'believers' is not small, and is rather distinguished - hamstring flexibility matters relatively little to a good bike fit, but matters a lot in a poor one.
saddle angle...
Saddle angle is critical. Get a 2-bolt rocker style post and tilt the saddle down as needed to eliminate the pressure. If you start sliding forward, rethink you saddle fore/aft position. Further back will keep you from sliding forward and keep weight off the hands.tyro said:
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