the best canti brake? opinions welcome

Dave K · Sep 16, 2004

I'm shopping for the best canti brake for my new Salsa Dreamcross. Using Campy Ergo and probably use my Salsa top-mount levers again, unless you think there are other better ones?

I've been using Tektro Onyx on my old bike, which worked well, but ready to upgrade to something nicer. I race "B" category and am relatively new to the sport.

Looks like it's gonna be either Paul's, Spooky, Empella or Shimano. Suggest any others you think are better.

I've heard the Paul's are the most expensive, but are they really measurably better than the others? If so, what's best model for CX racing (Stop Lite, Neo-Retro, etc.)?

I guess I'm mainly having a hard time differentiating between the different models and makers. Weights are probably pretty similar.

Hakkalugi · Sep 16, 2004

NOS Shimano

NOS Shimano XT's. Can be had new from Ebay for under 30 a set. Work great, no squeal, and get the most bag for your buck.

New Shimano's look very well and have had positive response from the board.

Paul's stoplights are very rare. Lost a bid for a pristine set on Ebay for 90 F & R. If you can find them go for it.

I use the empella's top levers. The originals that started it all.

EwS

euro-trash · Sep 16, 2004

Empellas are great brakes and run $80 less than Pauls. I have no complaints about mine. Stopping power and modulation, I can't think of anything they lack.

Gripped · Sep 16, 2004

euro-trash said:
Empellas are great brakes and run $80 less than Pauls. I have no complaints about mine. Stopping power and modulation, I can't think of anything they lack.

Where can you get Froglegs for $80? Also, Paul Neo Retros for $76.47 at Airbomb.com.

atpjunkie · Sep 16, 2004

what I've tried / owned

Spooky's - have 2 sets love em
Froggleggs - have 1 set love them
Paul Stop lights- loved them, had them, sold them to simplify parts and system across bikes and miss them (great brakes)
Avids- had them, liked them but couldn't stop the sqeal - bye bye
as for Pauls NR's they are usually 150-160 a set where Spooky's and Empellas are under $100 a pair. I got my Spooky's unused on ebay for 60 a pair.

cycloscott · Sep 16, 2004

my list:

XT's 2 years. no real complaints.
V's 1 month. Sucked.
Spooky's 2 years. strong return spring which I like. no adjustability. overall, liked them a lot.
Paul NR's 2 months. love them. return spring as strong as you want. full adjustability.

I do get some shop sponsorship, so $$$ isn't that big of an issue. If it were, I'd probably get the Spooky's again.

Dave K · Sep 17, 2004

does anybody other than cyclocrossworld.com sell Empella Frogglegs?

I read may be good idea using the Paul's Touring canti for rear to stay out of the way more and for less braking power to avoid possibly bending the chainstays, and use NeoRetro for front where the power is more useable?

Also saw CBO has some SRP Mr Grumpy cantis, and somewhere else I think I saw some Cane Creek. Haven't heard anything about these, so I think I'll stay focused on the previous mentioned.

Right now, I think it's between Empella and Pauls.

cycloscott · Sep 17, 2004

That's my set-up with the Pauls. But my primary reason was the greater leg clearence on dismount. And I can still very easily lock up the rear wheel. The whole "less braking power" argument, in my opinion, is overblown. With a bit of fiddling, you can set up just about any brake to be as powerful, or as soft as you like.

MShaw · Sep 17, 2004

The best canti you can find is the set in the back of your LBS for cheep! There's a treasure trove of parts in the spares bin of most shops that no one wants any more... Cross is good for helping clean out the LBS: 110mm BCD rings and cranks, cantis, barcons, etc.

I've run LX, XT, XTR, XC Pro, Avids (yuck!), and now OnZa HOs. All of them do a good job of slowing you down once they're set up correctly.

So, go talk to the wrench that's been around longest. Chances are he's gonna have a stash of old stuff that's perfect for cross.

M

jroden · Sep 18, 2004

I have the frog legs new this season and I think they work very well. They sit nice and far from the rim and stop the bike well enough. They have sort of a hardware store bin look about them, with a big honking half inch nut holding the pads on, but they work better thean the new shimanos I had for a few weeks back in aug (now on ebay, they are).

The only thing that might be a detraction for some people is the fact that you need a wrench (13 mm) and three (I believe) allen wrenches of various sizes to work on the things, not the kind of setup you would want for a trailside repair. I don't think it is an issue for cross, though I wish they had just used a 5 mm allen bolt for everything but the straddle cable.

Dave K · Sep 18, 2004

jroden: are the Empella Frogglegs fairly adjustable like or almost like Paul's?

jeremyb · Sep 18, 2004

Dave K said:
jroden: are the Empella Frogglegs fairly adjustable like or almost like Paul's?

They are difficult to get the right amount of toe-in. Unlike what i have heard of the pauls. I have the frogleggs, and yeah i like them, but if i didnt have them i'd probably buy the pauls. i got my frogleggs for like $60 for the pair from a guy whom i bought my first cx frame off of. So for that price, i cant complain.

jeremyb

www.cingcycling.com

jroden · Sep 18, 2004

they are like all the other old style canti brakes, where you can move the pads every which way, move the straddle cable side to side, up and down, etc. you need a fistful of tools to do it, but it is pretty easy to set them up. I have left the straddle cable loose so i can move it side to side to re center the brakes during a race if they are rubbing, I don't know if this is totally hillybilly of me, but it works ok.

Truth be told, mine look like crap the way they are set up, the pads are set way far away fromt hearms and are all at kooky angles, but they work and the pads stay the heck away from the rims and I can run a very long straddle cable.

I put the spring in the middle hole, is that what everyone else does?

flyweight · Sep 20, 2004

If the best is all you care about and money isn't a concern then go for the Paul's. I've used/worked on Empella, Spooky, Shimano, Avid, Mafac, and several other canti's. The Paul's stop as well or better than any of them. Paul's are better compared to the brakes that use smooth post pads (Empella, old Shimano, etc) in that they're much easier to adjust and change pads on. The one downside to the Paul's is that they're **considerably** more expensive than any other brake out there. If you go the Paul route you'll probably want to stick to the low profile Touring model. The wider Neo Retro sticks out too far in the back for many people while in the front it's often too powerful.

willco99 · Sep 20, 2004

brake pad question...

I have a set of Mr. Gtrumpy's....do not like the set up at all.

I have an set of old, unused (8-speed) XTR canti's and was thinking of retrofitting them with v-brake style brakeshoes for my new cross bike....anyone know if this is do-able?

Thanks...

MShaw · Sep 20, 2004

willco99 said:
I have a set of Mr. Gtrumpy's....do not like the set up at all.

I have an set of old, unused (8-speed) XTR canti's and was thinking of retrofitting them with v-brake style brakeshoes for my new cross bike....anyone know if this is do-able?

Thanks...

If you can find a pair of cartridge pads with a smooth post, it'll work great.

The V-brake style threaded posts are a no-go.

M

SGG2 · Sep 21, 2004

Pauls

On my new bike, I have the Paul NR in the front and the touring in the back. I just slapped them on there using Paul's suggestions for cable length, and they stop well. Somebody last night asked me if they stopped any better than Avids. My response was that they stop maybe 10% better, and cost about 2X as much. Then again, they don't squeal, are super easy to set up, have great tension adjustability, and look nice. I'll have them for a long time, so I spent the extra money. One benefit of them over the other high end brakes is that they allow toe-in adjustment. I won't go any faster, but they are nice.

Steve

Vanilla Gorilla · Sep 21, 2004

I have a set of (almost mint) radius brakes if anyone is interested. (cheap).

1speed_Mike · Sep 26, 2004

cycloscott said:
my list:

XT's 2 years. no real complaints.
V's 1 month. Sucked.
Spooky's 2 years. strong return spring which I like. no adjustability. overall, liked them a lot.
Paul NR's 2 months. love them. return spring as strong as you want. full adjustability.

I do get some shop sponsorship, so $$$ isn't that big of an issue. If it were, I'd probably get the Spooky's again.

I'm just about to pull the trigger on a new set of brakes. Narrowed it down to (in no particular order):
1 - Spooky's;
2 - Paul NR front and Touring rear; and
3 - Paul Touring front/rear.

I've used XTR V-brakes with Dia-Compe 287V levers and am now using a set of NOS Shimano XTs with Campy Record levers. I hated the XTR Vs! The NOS XTs have been pretty good, but the set-up has been driving me nuts.

I'm curious why you said: "If it were, I'd probably get the Spooky's again." Can you detail the pros/cons of each set-up?

jeremyb · Sep 26, 2004

Vanilla Gorilla said:
I have a set of (almost mint) radius brakes if anyone is interested. (cheap).

vanilla---check your private messages

jeremyb

the best canti brake? opinions welcome

Dave K

Hakkalugi

euro-trash

Gripped

atpjunkie

cycloscott

Dave K

cycloscott

MShaw

jroden

Dave K

jeremyb

jroden

flyweight

willco99

MShaw

SGG2

Vanilla Gorilla

1speed_Mike

jeremyb

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