I'm trying to diet down before racing seasons starts and was wondering if at 190lbs(mostly muscle) if I would be at a total disadvantage in criteriums. I'm currently at 220lbs 5'11 with 25% bodyfat... I'm trying to lower my body fat by March or earlier if possible with minimal loss of leg muscles(strength)
Average Weight of a Cat 5 racer
tbrown524
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The answer no one has given...
Perhaps you don't want to hear it, but, dude:
It's Cat 5 racing.
It's no big deal, and if you remember that, you will be fine. There might be a Cat 5 in your race that will be a 2 come summer. There might be one who has been a cat 5 for 7 years.
Whatever you weigh, whether you meet, exceed, or fall short of your weight loss plan, just get out there and race. Then you will find out how you measure up, what you need to work on, and you can go from there.
That's it.
Perhaps you don't want to hear it, but, dude:
It's Cat 5 racing.
It's no big deal, and if you remember that, you will be fine. There might be a Cat 5 in your race that will be a 2 come summer. There might be one who has been a cat 5 for 7 years.
Whatever you weigh, whether you meet, exceed, or fall short of your weight loss plan, just get out there and race. Then you will find out how you measure up, what you need to work on, and you can go from there.
That's it.
absolutely every word of this is true.Argentius said:
IME, Cat 5 racing, despite its reputation, usually is relatively tentative and tame. A couple of animals will break out somewhere in the race, maybe in the last K, maybe sooner, but for the most part it's a nice way to start racing. Pretty supportive. Go for it.
As for the weight, I have been in races where I see a guy carrying a bit of beef, and I confess to thinking, that guy is not long for this race, and waddayaknow, there he is at the end. You never know.
that's true --- bigger guys take up more real estate, and sometimes it's all about the real estate.velogirl said:actually, a little extra weight in CAT5 might be a positive thing -- it would be harder for the little 130-pound guys to knock him down!
my advice, race your 10 races, upgrade to CAT4 and then lose the extra poundage.
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As with others, I'm just trying to be helpful so please take this in that vein . . . riding is riding; riding ain't racing. Keeping up on a ride means very little with respect to being competitive in a race. My point: don't get your hopes up for a good Cat 5 finish based on riding with 3/4s. Racing brings out the best and worst in people and stuff happens.tbrown524 said:
But to reinforce the point somebody else made, the objective is to have fun. It is very unlikely you'll be turning pro and making your living at bike racing, so keep it all in perspective. Train hard, get healthier weight-wise, sign up for a race, and hammer. If you have any competitive juices flowing in your arteries, it will be GREAT regardless of your finish. Ahhhh, I love racing!
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You're too stuck on this BMI thing. It's nearly irrelevant for anyone who isn't a couch potato, and even for them, too. I'm ~5'7, 145lbs race weight and 8% bodyfat. That puts me at 22.7 on the BMI scale...I must be fat, right?ElvisMerckx said:
Riders DO fit a mold, just like all elite athletes in their respected sports. I said there were exceptions. Go to your local pros race and look at them. A majority will fit a similar body type.
How many >=6'2 riders won a grand tour? How many <=5'4 riders won a grand tour? I'd like you to name them all. Classics (Paris-Roubaix) are very different than grand tours, mind you.
PS, Jan Ulrich won a Giro time trial while on T-Mobile. The picture of him looking like the pillsbury dough boy is all over the internet....REALLY high BMI in that one.
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No, I think you're stuck on it. I use it as a metric along with about 5 other metrics to calculate relative fitness. It works fairly well for road cycling. And, it worked very well in addressing the original poster's question.iliveonnitro said:
Greater than 6'2" is a tough one -- but you postulated a much shorter bio-standard. I know this is pre-Lance data, but, off the top of my head I can name two who stood at 6'2". There was Miguel Indurain -- a 'decent' grand tour rider. Joop Zoetemelk is another.iliveonnitro said:
Furthermore, the average TdF rider in 2007 was 5' 10". That sort of kills your 5'9" stereotype.
Ignore that chart... Its worthless.
Point being I watched a pro Tri guy (dudes top ranked Tri racer BTW) get smoked by a CAT 5 field this summer during a crit. At the gun he took off and got a pretty good gap on the pack. With 5 mins to go he got swept up and finished mid pack. If you have more power than the other races but burn all your matches doing stupid crap it levels the playing field.
Far as racing its all about having fun. Long as you enjoy it and keep working hard the weight will come off by itself.
Point being I watched a pro Tri guy (dudes top ranked Tri racer BTW) get smoked by a CAT 5 field this summer during a crit. At the gun he took off and got a pretty good gap on the pack. With 5 mins to go he got swept up and finished mid pack. If you have more power than the other races but burn all your matches doing stupid crap it levels the playing field.
Far as racing its all about having fun. Long as you enjoy it and keep working hard the weight will come off by itself.
kbiker3111 said:
Hell how about if all the CAT 3s and up were clean.... You would be suprised how many amatuers are doping. Last year was the first time that the ADA tested elite nationals. From what I understand when they announced this at the starting line it go so quiet you could hear a pin drop... lol
Thanks for the post everyone... Just wanted to say that I wasn't planning on road racing or even one day becomming pro.. I've been to quite a few crits and liked what I saw and figured I could train to get out there and hopefully move up to Cat 4 one day... Being in my mid 30's, married with a full time job... Just want to get my blood pumping on the weekends...
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Great point!velogirl said:actually, a little extra weight in CAT5 might be a positive thing -- it would be harder for the little 130-pound guys to knock him down!
my advice, race your 10 races, upgrade to CAT4 and then lose the extra poundage.
A few years ago, one of my best friends who was a very competitive triathlete (5' 11" - 190 lbs vs me 6' - 160 lbs back then) started to participate in the road races. He and I were in a road race in Charlottesville (Master 40+) in March.
It was cold, rainy, windy and the pace was absolutely brutal through the rolling hills of Charlottesville. Flying down on one of the hills, I heard the loud/nasty metal scrapping noise. I looked back briefly (we were doing 45 mph - 50 mph), I saw my buddy flying through the air like a superman.
I pulled over to assess the damage and it wasn't pretty. Several racers were down along with several broken bike/parts spread out all over the road. My buddy was sitting down holding his right shoulder.
Looking at his bike (broken top tube) I thought he had broken his right clavicle.
The medic arrived and told him that he most likely broke his clavicle and took him to the local hospital for a X-ray. The x-Ray was negative. He escaped it with a bruised shoulder.
Even the doctors were surprised he didn't break his c.
I think him having little bit of extra meat on his upper body probably saved his shoulder and his season as many of the other racers who crashed weren't so lucky.
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"It's nearly irrelevant for anyone who isn't a couch potato, and even for them, too."
I don't know about that, pretty much every study I read shows increased risk of metabolic syndrome and other negative health consequences as BMI category increases from normal, to overweight, to the various obese categories. BMI for most people is a good measure of "fatness" and that is where the risk probably lies. Fitness and fatness appear to be largely independent risk factors, so it is not accurate to say it is only good for couch potatoes. A fat marathoner is still going to carry the risk of the fatness even if they are not getting the risk of being sedentary.
"I'm ~5'7, 145lbs race weight and 8% bodyfat. That puts me at 22.7 on the BMI scale...I must be fat, right?"
No, that puts you almost dead in the middle of the normal range (20-25), >25 is overweight, >30 obese.
The one group that BMI probably isn't very good for predicting risk is folks who are abnormally muscled for their height, which are mostly young men. So I wouldn't sweat it if I were in that category.
I don't know about that, pretty much every study I read shows increased risk of metabolic syndrome and other negative health consequences as BMI category increases from normal, to overweight, to the various obese categories. BMI for most people is a good measure of "fatness" and that is where the risk probably lies. Fitness and fatness appear to be largely independent risk factors, so it is not accurate to say it is only good for couch potatoes. A fat marathoner is still going to carry the risk of the fatness even if they are not getting the risk of being sedentary.
"I'm ~5'7, 145lbs race weight and 8% bodyfat. That puts me at 22.7 on the BMI scale...I must be fat, right?"
No, that puts you almost dead in the middle of the normal range (20-25), >25 is overweight, >30 obese.
The one group that BMI probably isn't very good for predicting risk is folks who are abnormally muscled for their height, which are mostly young men. So I wouldn't sweat it if I were in that category.
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That maybe the case except his extra meat (muscle) was on his shoulder from swimming and lifting weight not on his waist. I guess we would never know what might've happened if was was a skinny road racer.wfrogge said:
Most of the prototype road racers (with skinny upper body) would most likely sustain more damage if they hit the tarmac doing 45 mph to 50 mph.
I don't disagree with (extra weight = higher impact), having said that skinny upper body won't protect your bones too much if you hit the tarmac (although it will make you climb faster).
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In many crashes I've witnessed (including my own crash when I was hit by a car), the injuries to those with more muscle mass has been less than those with less muscle mass. Not only does the muscle support and protect the bones, but the fact that someone participates in resistance training and other weight-bearing exercise helps create less bone-density loss (ie they have stronger bones).
extra weight = higher impact? I would agree with this only if someone is being launched off the bike and into the air for a long distance. If someone just falls off the bike, body weight would have a minimal effect on the amount of force with which someone hits the ground.
BMI is not a good metric for athletes -- any sports governing board or certifying body will tell you that. A cyclist will likely have significantly more muscle mass than a couch-dweller. This increased muscle mass will also increase body weight. Hell, ask any woman who starts cycling what happens when she tries to fit her quads into jeans!
extra weight = higher impact? I would agree with this only if someone is being launched off the bike and into the air for a long distance. If someone just falls off the bike, body weight would have a minimal effect on the amount of force with which someone hits the ground.
BMI is not a good metric for athletes -- any sports governing board or certifying body will tell you that. A cyclist will likely have significantly more muscle mass than a couch-dweller. This increased muscle mass will also increase body weight. Hell, ask any woman who starts cycling what happens when she tries to fit her quads into jeans!
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Another easy measure one could use if they wanted to check whether they are perhaps deluding themselves that a high BMI is the result of muscle rather than fat is to do an abdominal circumference measure. I don't know values off the top of my head, I'm sure they can be found via Goggle, but most of what I read indicates it is a comparable measure to BMI for predicting risk.velogirl said:
tbrown524 said:
TBrown, I'm right there with you brother! Mid 30s (probably have to start saying late 30s now actually!) married, two kids, full time job. Started riding seriously a couple of years ago, and found I really liked it. Lost 30 pounds from 240 down to 210. I'm 5'11". Figured I'd try racing. Have done a couple now, and really have enjoyed it. I know I'd be able to compete better at 190 than the 210, and that is the goal eventually. But my goal for this season is to ride as much as I can, race in the races that I can make it to, have fun, and hopefully not get hurt.
Even if I know I'd be faster at 190, I know I'm healthier than I was at 240. I read somewhere that when you feel like you're heavier/less fit than all the cyclists around you, go to the mall and compare yourself to the "average" person. It'll make you feel better!
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You're probably also in better shape (risk-wise) than even the normal weight ones who do not excercise, which is going to be a large majority of them.kmac said:
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