Tarmac Comp vs Expert

PJ352 · Jun 29, 2008

Oldteen said:
Fully agree the 10s 105 is a fine set-up- very close to Ultegra (or DA) in function. Nicer, IMHO, than older 9s Ultegra I'm running on my Cannondale.
I should have clarified that my "target gruppo" was Shimano rather than SRAM Rival, since I doubt my brain could handle riding both shifters regularly. My LBS did not have a 105-equipped Tarmac in stock when I was shopping- only Ultegra & Rival (DA was beyond my budget). I was too impatient to wait for the '08 bikes to arrive, & liked the paint job on the '07 better.

Funny you should mention SRAM. The only SRAM component on my Comp was the Rival cassette, and after test riding the bike I asked my LBS to switch it out for a 105. They did, and there was a noticable improvement - not my imagination. So I can (still) say I'm a Shimano fan. :thumbsup:

PaulRivers · Jun 30, 2008

Oldteen said:
To be expected since your wallet would be $1000 lighter
Seriously, I really suspect the difference you felt was the wheelset. Those Fulcrum 5's are nice hoops, particularly compared to the generic hub-CXP-22 set spec'ed on the Tarmac Elite. Even Specialized's own literature suggests the differences in vertical compliance (biggest factor in a frame's ride comfort) between their carbon frames in the same model are subtle rather than striking. BB stiffness and weight are mainly what you are getting for your additional $$$ in the frame.

I don't know that I'll have time to go back and get them to swap the wheelset from the Elite and put in on the Expert. It's an interesting thought (especially for $1,000 difference), but jeez, I have a job to ya know?

I'd like to point out that in addition to using a 8r vs 6r, the Expert frame is also constructed differently. The 6r frame says "Specialized FACT 6r carbon, triple monocoque construction...", while the 8r frame says "Specialized FACT 8r carbon frame, Az1 construction...". PJ352 mentioned the difference in like the 3rd post down. I'm just saying that in addition to the carbon used, there's a difference in bike frame construction between the models. Since the frame uses a different level of carbon and also uses a different frame construction technique, it's not implausible to say that the ride quality might be different.

Oldteen · Jul 1, 2008

Not saying that there are not differences in frame construction, just the magnitude of the differences to the typical rider are quite small. Specialized invests big $$ to measure differences with its frame testing protocols, but are those differences relevant to me? In my case, I felt not. Others might not agree. For example, the lab-measured additional BB stiffness of the SL2 vs my 07 Expert is irrelevant to me if my max sprints do not flex either BB. OTOH- that difference in BB stiffness may be useful to a strong cat 1/2 racer.

Dr_John · Jul 1, 2008

For example, the lab-measured additional BB stiffness of the SL2 vs my 07 Expert is irrelevant to me if my max sprints do not flex either BB.

... which would be surprising to me, since even at my whopping weight of 140 lbs, I flex the BB area more than I'd like when I sprint out of the seat on my Tarmac SL. I can't imagine how much flex Boonen and Bettini were getting when they were riding the SL; hence the SL2. And I'm definitely not a strong cat 1/2 racer. I do agree with your point - it really depends how important it is to the individual. I doubt any entry-level rider would notice or care. But my next bike will definitely have a stronger BB area.

PaulRivers · Jul 1, 2008

Oldteen said:
Not saying that there are not differences in frame construction, just the magnitude of the differences to the typical rider are quite small. Specialized invests big $$ to measure differences with its frame testing protocols, but are those differences relevant to me? In my case, I felt not. Others might not agree. For example, the lab-measured additional BB stiffness of the SL2 vs my 07 Expert is irrelevant to me if my max sprints do not flex either BB. OTOH- that difference in BB stiffness may be useful to a strong cat 1/2 racer.

I totally agree with you about stiffness. I'm no racer by any means, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I didn't feel that the Expert was any faster than the Elite either. Felt like they had the same speed and stiffness when I rode them.

The guy at the bike shop thought that they manufactured the Roubaix first for comfort, then for stiffness, and they manufactured the Tarmac first for stiffness, then for comfort. Is he right, or is it a theory he made up on the spot? I don't know.

But if you feel the Elite ($2k) or the Comp is just as comfortable for you as the Expert ($3k) I would definitely recommend the Elite.

I hope my experience and testing is useful for someone else trying to make the decision.

PJ352 · Jul 2, 2008

BB flex? Something I've heard about, but never experienced and most likely never will. Sad, but true. :sad:

Dr_John · Jul 2, 2008

BB flex? Something I've heard about, but never experienced and most likely never will. Sad, but true

I used to think the same thing. Just keep riding - you'll see.

And it's not like I'm losing races because of it, because, well, I don't race. But it is noticeable and annoying if I'm really hammering (for me, at least) in a sprint on my 12 cog. Now noticing it, I'd love to see how an SL2 handles it.

Don't get me wrong; love my SL. Just always looking to my next bike.

PJ352 · Jul 2, 2008

Dr_John said:
I used to think the same thing. Just keep riding - you'll see. And it's not like I'm losing races because of it, because, well, I don't race. But it is noticeable and annoying if I'm really hammering (for me, at least) in a sprint on my 12 cog. Now noticing it, I'd love to see how an SL2 handles it.

Don't get me wrong; love my SL. Just always looking to my next bike.

Appreciate the thoughts Dr_John, but here are some stats:
56 yrs of age
138 lbs.
Average speed 1990 = 21 MPH
Average speed 2008 = 20.2 MPH
Been riding about 3,500+ miles since the mid 80's. If I haven't flexed a BB by now, it ain't in the cards. It's ok though, because I love riding and still enjoy passing the younger folks with their aero bars and all. :thumbsup:

IMO, you should check out the SL2, just to satisfy your curiosity. Then again, that's easy for me to say, it's not my money!

PJ352 · Jul 10, 2008

PaulRivers said:
I totally agree with you about stiffness. I'm no racer by any means, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I didn't feel that the Expert was any faster than the Elite either. Felt like they had the same speed and stiffness when I rode them.

The guy at the bike shop thought that they manufactured the Roubaix first for comfort, then for stiffness, and they manufactured the Tarmac first for stiffness, then for comfort. Is he right, or is it a theory he made up on the spot? I don't know.

But if you feel the Elite ($2k) or the Comp is just as comfortable for you as the Expert ($3k) I would definitely recommend the Elite. I hope my experience and testing is useful for someone else trying to make the decision.

I thought by now we'd have a follow up from you on your purchase, but maybe you're eyeing the '09's??

PaulRivers · Jul 10, 2008

PJ352 said:
I thought by now we'd have a follow up from you on your purchase, but maybe you're eyeing the '09's??

Though I think the 2008 Expert as a bike is right what I want, I was hoping that for $3,000 I could get a paint job that doesn't look like it needs a red cape and blue tights to go along with it:
https://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/2008/bikes/9086-27_l.jpg

I've got a 2008 Tarmac Expert on hold at the bike shop (I paid a deposit) and I'm waiting to see what the 2009 model looks like, hoping it will look nicer and has the same or better ride...(though mention of the 2009 model using monocoque construction rather than the current AZ1 worries me a little...)

Of course, my next thought is that with the 2009 model using the SL2 molds, I wonder if the 2010 Tarmac will be completely new and have an even better ride...

Jeez, it's like buying a computer haha! Wait a year and your current bike might have gone out of date...

PJ352 · Jul 10, 2008

PaulRivers said:
Though I think the 2008 Expert as a bike is right what I want, I was hoping that for $3,000 I could get a paint job that doesn't look like it needs a red cape and blue tights to go along with it:
https://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/2008/bikes/9086-27_l.jpg

I've got a 2008 Tarmac Expert on hold at the bike shop (I paid a deposit) and I'm waiting to see what the 2009 model looks like, hoping it will look nicer and has the same or better ride...(though mention of the 2009 model using monocoque construction rather than the current AZ1 worries me a little...)

Of course, my next thought is that with the 2009 model using the SL2 molds, I wonder if the 2010 Tarmac will be completely new and have an even better ride...

Jeez, it's like buying a computer haha! Wait a year and your current bike might have gone out of date...

I know what you're saying. It took me the better part of two years to decide on a bike, but it was worth the time and effort.

I did a little more 'research' into this monocoque/ triple monocoque/ AZ1 stuff, and it turns out that they all share the monocoque process, but the construction is different - or was, that is - and uses cured, sequential monocoque, for what it's worth.

If interested, here's a document that describes FACT in depth:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/specialized/2006/FACT_Final_opt-1.pdf

I'm beginning to think that Spec is abandoning AZ1 for a less labor intensive process (monocoque). We'll know the results when the '09's make their appearance.

Speaking of which, did your LBS give you an idea of when that might be?

PaulRivers · Jul 10, 2008

PJ352 said:
I know what you're saying. It took me the better part of two years to decide on a bike, but it was worth the time and effort.

I did a little more 'research' into this monocoque/ triple monocoque/ AZ1 stuff, and it turns out that they all share the monocoque process, but the construction is different - or was, that is - and uses cured, sequential monocoque, for what it's worth.

If interested, here's a document that describes FACT in depth:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/specialized/2006/FACT_Final_opt-1.pdf

I'm beginning to think that Spec is abandoning AZ1 for a less labor intensive process (monocoque). We'll know the results when the '09's make their appearance.

Speaking of which, did your LBS give you an idea of when that might be?

When the 09's make their appearance, I'll probably be back here detailing my experience.

My bike shop didn't give me much more info than "sometime this fall". They mentioned they'll probably know the colors in August/September, and they'll start getting the bikes sometime after that. I was doing research last night and saw a bike shop that had an official "test ride the 2009 specialized bikes" event scheduled in mid September (I think it was the 15th), so that would be my best definitive date.

fyi, I thought your comment about BB flex in the frame was hilarious! "Been riding about 3,500+ miles since the mid 80's. If I haven't flexed a BB by now, it ain't in the cards."

PJ352 · Jul 10, 2008

PaulRivers said:
fyi, I thought your comment about BB flex in the frame was hilarious! "Been riding about 3,500+ miles since the mid 80's. If I haven't flexed a BB by now, it ain't in the cards."

Not funny. Sad, very sad.. :smilewinkgrin:

Tarmac Comp vs Expert

PJ352

PaulRivers

Oldteen

Dr_John

PaulRivers

PJ352

Dr_John

PJ352

PJ352

PaulRivers

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PaulRivers

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