A question about adjusting the derailleur on my new Madone 5.2

the sky above tar below · Jul 2, 2008

Hi. I brought home a new Madone 5.2 Performance on 06/30/08. I have a question about adjusting the front derailleur. Let me preface the question by informing everyone that everything I touch mechanically seems to get worse.

However, whenever I am in the big ring up front and the 2 smallest outside sprockets in back, there is chain rub against the front derailleur. How can I adjust my deraileur a little so I can have use of my two largest gears?

My main worry is that after I make this adjustment, I will throw the chain onto my crankarm when changing from the small ring up front to the big ring.

Can anyone help me make a slight adjustment so that I can enjoy my bike better? What do I do? I am not a wrench; I usually take my bike to the bike shop for help, however, it's 25 miles away and I will have to go up there later for a major tune up. If I can do a little something at home, I would be glad.

hclignett · Jul 2, 2008

There are 2 limit screws to adjust the high low settings on your derailler. Or else use the adjusting barrel on the down tube. It's okay to make a mistake every now and then. Or else take it back to the shop you bought it from they should give you a free adjustment after so many miles while your bike is breaking in.

the sky above tar below · Jul 2, 2008

Yea, my first instinct is to wait a couple weeks, maybe three, until my bike goes back to the shop for a complete adjustment. Howerver, will I damage my chain, or anything if I tolerate this chain rub for a while?

hclignett · Jul 2, 2008

No, it should be okay I get it all the time when I ride and am to lazy to make the adjustment right away.

08Madone5.2 · Jul 3, 2008

Take it back to the dealer TOMORROW and have him adjust it again. He will get everything lined up properly and then barring anything unforseen, you will need to have it adjusted again at around the 300 mile mark while it breaks in. All perfectly normal.

Tar - you going to post some pics of your new ride? The best of luck to you, you will love your new Madone and I look forward to all the new posts from you now that you actually POSESS your very own Madone.

PJ352 · Jul 3, 2008

the sky above said:
Hi. I brought home a new Madone 5.2 Performance on 06/30/08. I have a question about adjusting the front derailleur. Let me preface the question by informing everyone that everything I touch mechanically seems to get worse.

However, whenever I am in the big ring up front and the 2 smallest outside sprockets in back, there is chain rub against the front derailleur. How can I adjust my deraileur a little so I can have use of my two largest gears?

My main worry is that after I make this adjustment, I will throw the chain onto my crankarm when changing from the small ring up front to the big ring.

Can anyone help me make a slight adjustment so that I can enjoy my bike better? What do I do? I am not a wrench; I usually take my bike to the bike shop for help, however, it's 25 miles away and I will have to go up there later for a major tune up. If I can do a little something at home, I would be glad.

That type of problem shouldn't even require adjusting the hi/lo screws. The trim on STI's allows for a slight move in and out in both the inner and outer chainring positions. This assumes you know how the STI's work and the LBS set the bike up with some semblance of accuracy.

08Madone5.2 · Jul 3, 2008

PJ352 said:
That type of problem shouldn't even require adjusting the hi/lo screws. The trim on STI's allows for a slight move in and out in both the inner and outer chainring positions. This assumes you know how the STI's work and the LBS set the bike up with some semblance of accuracy.

PJ -
Excellent point. The dealer should have taught him how to feather the FD using the shift lever. Once everything is set up properly, nothing more than the occasional feathering of the shifter should be required.

the sky above tar below · Jul 3, 2008

I have no more trim adjustment on the front derailleur to move it toward the outside of the bike when in the two largest gears. However, do you think the chain may be rubbing on inner part of the front derailleur and therefore trimming it to go back inside may help?

I've never thought of this.

the sky above tar below · Jul 3, 2008

I'm not sure if you know what I mean. In other words when I shift to the large ring up front, the front derailleur goes all the way to the outside of the bike. I can't trim it to go further outside after this shift. The only trim adjustment on the front derailleur on the large ring is to go inside, for use with the larger rear cogs. This would make the rub worse, with my problem.

08Madone5.2 · Jul 3, 2008

Take it back and let the dealer adjust it, no big deal.

PJ352 · Jul 3, 2008

the sky above said:
I'm not sure if you know what I mean. In other words when I shift to the large ring up front, the front derailleur goes all the way to the outside of the bike. I can't trim it to go further outside after this shift. The only trim adjustment on the front derailleur on the large ring is to go inside, for use with the larger rear cogs. This would make the rub worse, with my problem.

If when you shift from inner to outer chainring, the derailleur moves to the outside, then it is possible that the inner part (of the derailleur) is where you're getting chain rub. In this case, a click of the inner STI lever will move the f/der in just enough to stop the rub. You should be able to test this theory by standing next to the bike (smallest cog in back, outer chainring front) and click the left inner lever. Before doing so, to double check that the f/der is in its outer most position, move the left outer lever in before clicking the inner lever. Sounds confusing. but if you follow this, you'll learn two things. First, if your f/der is adjusted even close to correct and two, you'll learn just where the der is rubbing.

It seems to me that if you were getting chain rub from the inner cage, the rub would start before you hit the last two smallest cogs, but this is still worth a shot. If nothing else, you'll learn something!

08Madone5.2 · Jul 3, 2008

PJ352 said:
If when you shift from inner to outer chainring, the derailleur moves to the outside, then it is possible that the inner part (of the derailleur) is where you're getting chain rub. In this case, a click of the inner STI lever will move the f/der in just enough to stop the rub. You should be able to test this theory by standing next to the bike (smallest cog in back, outer chainring front) and click the left inner lever. Before doing so, to double check that the f/der is in its outer most position, move the left outer lever in before clicking the inner lever. Sounds confusing. but if you follow this, you'll learn two things. First, if your f/der is adjusted even close to correct and two, you'll learn just where the der is rubbing.

It seems to me that if you were getting chain rub from the inner cage, the rub would start before you hit the last two smallest cogs, but this is still worth a shot. If nothing else, you'll learn something!

PJ -
I know how to trim my derailleur and I cant even follow that post!!! LOL. My advice to Tar is to take it into his dealer, let the dealer make sure everything is lined up properly and then have the dealer teach Tar hands on about the function of the FD and trim. Also remember - he got the triple, a little bit more tempermental that the double as far as adjustments are concerned.

the sky above tar below · Jul 3, 2008

Thanks, PJ, I know for a fact that the fr der is in its outermost position because I have moved the left outer lever in all the way to stop the rubbing, but the rubbing continued.

The second point is, if the fr der is adjust incorrectly, I fear that trimming it to go in while experiencing the rub will make it worse, and possibly damage the chain or fr der? Is this possible?

the sky above tar below · Jul 3, 2008

08Madone5.2 said:
PJ -
I know how to trim my derailleur and I cant even follow that post!!! LOL. My advice to Tar is to take it into his dealer, let the dealer make sure everything is lined up properly and then have the dealer teach Tar hands on about the function of the FD and trim. Also remember - he got the triple, a little bit more tempermental that the double as far as adjustments are concerned.

Thanks for your help 08madone, but I was able to follow PJ's post perfectly. Also, I got the compact double, just like yours.

PJ352 · Jul 3, 2008

08Madone5.2 said:
PJ -
I know how to trim my derailleur and I cant even follow that post!!! LOL. My advice to Tar is to take it into his dealer, let the dealer make sure everything is lined up properly and then have the dealer teach Tar hands on about the function of the FD and trim. Also remember - he got the triple, a little bit more tempermental that the double as far as adjustments are concerned.

I know you're right in this instance '08, but I always have a tough time giving up and bringing my bike back to the LBS. I've had so many bad experiences with them through the years, I think of them as a last resort. Back in the mid 80's I bought a maintenance book, workstand and a bunch of tools and haven't looked back since. I now build up/ tear down and do all the maintenance on my bikes.

PJ352 · Jul 3, 2008

the sky above said:
Thanks, PJ, I know for a fact that the fr der is in its outermost position because I have moved the left outer lever in all the way to stop the rubbing, but the rubbing continued.

Ok, but once you have done this part click the inner left lever to see if the f/ der moves in towards the inner ring. I want to determine what side of the cage is rubbing. I'd guess it's the outer part.

the sky above said:
The second point is, if the fr der is adjust incorrectly, I fear that trimming it to go in while experiencing the rub will make it worse, and possibly damage the chain or fr der? Is this possible?

No. You aren't going to do any lasting damage to any parts of the drivetrain while we're determining the problem. Riding for months or many, many miles would start to wear parts, but not in the short term.

the sky above tar below · Jul 3, 2008

Okay, thanks PJ352, have a pleasant rest of the evening, I appreciate your time and attention. I may try what you said, the thing is, I have no problem with the large front ring/ large rear ring combinations which leads me to believe it is the outside of the fr der that is rubbing.

PJ352 · Jul 3, 2008

the sky above said:
Okay, thanks PJ352, have a pleasant rest of the evening, I appreciate your time and attention. I may try what you said, the thing is, I have no problem with the large front ring/ large rear ring combinations which leads me to believe it is the outside of the fr der that is rubbing.

No problem, glad to help.
Good point about the large combos. In that case if the trim is maxed out on the f/ der (and the cable tension is correct), that leaves the adjustment screws as a recourse. If you want to pursue that tomorrow, post and we'll assist.

epicxt · Jul 3, 2008

Tar-
Here's an easy way to determine/fix your problem:

1. As stated above, shift into your big ring/high gear in back. It sounds like you've figured out that it is rubbing on the outside of the cage of the ft. derailleur.

2. Manually try to move the derailleur outward by pushing down on the cable pinch-bolt area with your thumb of your right hand while pressuring the cage outward with your index finger. (Don't be too ham-fisted with this, you just need to overpower the spring)

3. If the ft. derailleur moves out, you just need to increase the cable tension until it no longer rubs in your high gear. If you have a barrel adjuster just unscrew it .5 - 1.0 turns or until your chain no longer rubs.

4. If the derailleur doesn't move (and this is my guess), you will need to back off the high-limit screw about half a turn or so. Again, just enough so the derailleur can move outward so it no longer rubs the chain. At this point you may still need to drop back and do step 3 to achieve the correct adjustment.

5. If this doesn't work or is too overwhelming, don't feel bad about taking it back to the shop immediately. You shouldn't have to put up with nasty gear noises and it'll be a quick fix for them. Also it gives them the sense that you stay on top of the maintenance of your bike and are aware of the state of your equipment.

Ride on.

08Madone5.2 · Jul 3, 2008

PJ352 said:
I know you're right in this instance '08, but I always have a tough time giving up and bringing my bike back to the LBS. I've had so many bad experiences with them through the years, I think of them as a last resort. Back in the mid 80's I bought a maintenance book, workstand and a bunch of tools and haven't looked back since. I now build up/ tear down and do all the maintenance on my bikes.

If I have an issue, I bring it to my guy and he will make any adjustments while I am there in a matter of minutes. While he's doing it, he will also show me what he's doing so I learn at the same time. I'm usually in and out of the shop in 10 or 15 minutes and have yet to have to leave my bike there for any period of time.

the sky above tar below · Jul 3, 2008

epicxt: thank you for all your help and instructions. I'm a little hesitant to do my own work because the last time I tried something like this, the cable snapped and came off the bike!

When you talk about "unscrewing the barrel adjuster" do you mean turning it away from me or toward me? The barrel adjuster is parallel to the handlebar. I will be standing behind the bike, facing forward, toward the handlebars to explain my perspective.

Also, will unscrewing the barrel adjuster make it more likely the chain will be thrown onto the crankarm?

PJ352 · Jul 3, 2008

08Madone5.2 said:
If I have an issue, I bring it to my guy and he will make any adjustments while I am there in a matter of minutes. While he's doing it, he will also show me what he's doing so I learn at the same time. I'm usually in and out of the shop in 10 or 15 minutes and have yet to have to leave my bike there for any period of time.

Understood, problem is finding someone who knows what to do and cares to do it right (a key point). IME, most guess only to have you return for them to guess again. If it's not something I know up front, I take the time to learn and figure it out. Beyond that, it's bonding time for me and my ride!

PJ352 · Jul 3, 2008

the sky above said:
epicxt: thank you for all your help and instructions. I'm a little hesitant to do my own work because the last time I tried something like this, the cable snapped and came off the bike!

When you talk about "unscrewing the barrel adjuster" do you mean turning it away from me or toward me? The barrel adjuster is parallel to the handlebar. I will be standing behind the bike, facing forward, toward the handlebars to explain my perspective.

Also, will unscrewing the barrel adjuster make it more likely the chain will be thrown onto the crankarm?

Before making adjustments to cable tension, I suggest you try #2 posted by epicxt below:

2. Manually try to move the derailleur outward by pushing down on the cable pinch-bolt area with your thumb of your right hand while pressuring the cage outward with your index finger. (Don't be too ham-fisted with this, you just need to overpower the spring)

My guess is that you're not going to move the derailleur far, if at all. That would mean that an adjustment to the high level on the f/ der has to be made - very little, very slowly.

the sky above tar below · Jul 3, 2008

Okay PJ, two questions: Which screw is the high level screw? And, if I'm on the left side of the bike facing forward toward the handlbars, do I turn this screw clockwise or counterclockwise?

Tlaloc · Jul 3, 2008

Download the manual from the manufacturer's web site.

Read the instructions.

zac · Jul 3, 2008

Why don't you just download the Shimano tech sheets for your particular dérailleur, they are all available at Shimano's site. Additionally you should venture over to Park Tools website and browse through the tool school stuff. There is detailed information at both sites with pictures.

Derailleur adjustments are a basic skill that everyone should know. But you don't want to be messing with the "B" setting screw or the limiters unless you know what you are doing, or at least have a basic understanding of their purpose. A chain in the spokes or one wrapped around the axle or a jockey sucked up into the cassette or one jammed between the rings and frame are all nasty experiences.

HTH
zac

A question about adjusting the derailleur on my new Madone 5.2

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