Is this dangerous for a frame? Will this even work?

dd74 · Jun 16, 2009

Here is an explanation I received re. putting a 130mm rear wheel in a 126mm frame:

1. Put bike in stand.
2. Put rear wheel in rear triangle.
3. Put drive-side axle in dropout.
4. Pull non-drive side dropout away from wheel while sliding axle into left dropout.
5. Clamp QR
6. Ride bike

My question is isn't the spreading of the rear triangle dangerous to the frame's integrity?

Also, assuming their are more gears on the freewheel - or cassette, I imagine the derailleurs will have to be adjusted.

Going from a friction shift system with a 6-speed freewheel to a 9 or 10-speed cassette must be a tall order for the old derailleurs.

Or can the old derailleurs handle the newer, wider cassette?

Any input? Thanks.

Lighthouse Cycles · Jun 16, 2009

Spreading the rear triangle with your new wheel is OK but having the frame realigned to 130 mm is a more elegant solution if your bike is steel. If the derailleur can handle the travel it will work assuming you are still using a friction lever. But you should think about upgradeng to an indexed system because they work so well.
Tim

dd74 · Jun 16, 2009

Yeah - that's what I thought. Yes, it's a steel bike. And in its current form, it handles very well and still manages to hold its own in most cases. I'm just thinking there might be in advantage of having more gears, which I really can't fit on this bike. Sometimes it's a bit hard to climb on with a 42-26.

Marc · Jun 16, 2009

What frame material are we talking about?

What you are talking about doing is called cold-setting. Some materials take too it better than others. Steel takes it fine, Al-not so. Also, remember 4mm is usually near manufacturing tolerance anyway-so you're not doing a drastic reshape to the frame.

Kuma601 · Jun 16, 2009

What frame? Sometimes the expense of this update isn't practical. I like my old bike so I was willing but many might have put the $$ toward a contemporary one.

Many old bikes are still on the road these days with similar methods. Some to be more cautious of are bonded and aluminum frames. These may have more risk yet there are still enough that are out there without issues. The local shop would re-set my frame along with aligning it for $200. Suffice, on a well aged bike like the one in mind, that would be a $$ expense. If the rear triangle is in alignment, putting in a 130mm rear wheel shouldn't pose a problem..

I simply put a 130mm rear into my 126mm spaced steel frame back in December and it now has about 1000 miles on it. In that case, the Shimano 600EX rear functioned fine with the 9spd Dura Ace levers. I thought it would need to have the hanger aligned but it has been shifting properly so no need there.

You'll know fairly soon if putting a new wheel in will work:

1. Check that it cenetrs.
2. The rear derailleur covers the range along with shifting properly. You'll need the necessary bits too: chain, cassette, cables...

dd74 · Jun 16, 2009

What frame? Colnago Super - SL tubing - circa 1985.

ultimobici · Jun 16, 2009

Don't forget that spreading it by merely putting a 130mm wheel in is not enough.

You will need to make sure that the faces of the dropouts are realigned or you risk smapped axles.

PdxMark · Jun 16, 2009

I'd just switch the 42 ring to a 39.

dd74 · Jun 16, 2009

PdxMark said:
I'd just switch the 42 ring to a 39.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. However, is that possible with older Campy components? By older, I mean dating back to the mid-late 80s.

FatTireFred · Jun 16, 2009

dd74 said:
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. However, is that possible with older Campy components? By older, I mean dating back to the mid-late 80s.

if it's got a 144 bcd it's not

PdxMark · Jun 16, 2009

FatTireFred said:
if it's got a 144 bcd it's not

How about that....

"41 teeth is the smallest chain ring that will fit on a 144 Bolt Circle Diameter crank. To use a smaller chain ring you must switch to a newer, 135 BCD crank."

http://branfordbike.com/itemdetails.cfm?id=532

dd74 · Jun 16, 2009

Eh! It's hopeless. That's okay. I have a modern steel bike too. I just wondered if I could get the best of both worlds in one package without severely manipulating the frame. Looks like a negative to me.

nightfend · Jun 16, 2009

Old steel frames like that Colnago have plenty of give. You can easily bend the stays out a little with your hands and fit a 130mm wheel into the dropouts. No problems there.

Le Wrench · Jun 16, 2009

No problem spreading a 126mm rear end to fit a 130mm wheel.
That's just 2mm on each side, not a problem on steel.

I have done this to many project bikes like old lugged Japanese bikes from the 90's (Panasonic, Nishiki, Shogun)

dd74 · Jun 16, 2009

Le Wrench said:
No problem spreading a 126mm rear end to fit a 130mm wheel.
That's just 2mm on each side, not a problem on steel.

I have done this to many project bikes like old lugged Japanese bikes from the 90's (Panasonic, Nishiki, Shogun)

How'd they handle afterward? Could you pounce on them without worrying that you might have hurt the frame spreading it out in such a way?

dookie · Jun 16, 2009

ultimobici said:
Don't forget that spreading it by merely putting a 130mm wheel in is not enough.

You will need to make sure that the faces of the dropouts are realigned or you risk smapped axles.

not true in my experience.

i have many thousands of miles on a 126mm paramount slx frame, into which i've jammed a 130mm campy 8s rear wheel. adding 2mm per side ain't much in the way of dropout face angles, considering the length of the chainstays (~400mm). ~0.3*, if my math is correct. consider that 1min on a clock face is 6*.

does not affect the handling. pounce away. you're overthinking things...

Dave Hickey · Jun 16, 2009

dookie said:
not true in my experience.

i have many thousands of miles on a 126mm paramount slx frame, into which i've jammed a 130mm campy 8s rear wheel. adding 2mm per side ain't much in the way of dropout face angles, considering the length of the chainstays (~400mm). ~0.3*, if my math is correct. consider that 1min on a clock face is 6*.

+1.....I've been using 130 rear wheels in 126 steel frames for years and never , ever, had an issue...much to do about nothing if you ask me

Kerry Irons · Jun 17, 2009

Not in any way hopeless

dd74 said:
Eh! It's hopeless. That's okay. I have a modern steel bike too. I just wondered if I could get the best of both worlds in one package without severely manipulating the frame. Looks like a negative to me.

As several others have stated, this is an easy thing to do. Your "special procedure" is totally unnecessary. Just put the wider wheel in there by spreading the dropouts enough to get the wheel in. Ride the bike. Your wheel changes will be slower, but other than that there's nothing to worry about. I did this with a steel frame and after a few thousand miles, I no longer had to apply much pressure on the frame to get the wheel it - it seemed like the frame had cold set to the wider spacing.

Sablotny · Jun 17, 2009

I tried Sheldon Brown's technique

which involves some strategically placed 2x4's and then some strategically measured yanks and tugs. Let me tell you, it was anything but scientific. The good news is that I got it close after a couple tries and the frame went on to live a happy life with a 130mm rear wheel.

Uncle Grumpy · Jun 17, 2009

I have a late 80s De Rosa, 126mm rear. Well, it should have been. It was bent a little on one side and ended up close to 110mm.

I wanted to run 130mm so it needed to be cold set. Given it was already misaligned, experimentation won out over guilt and I set to it and spaced it to 128mm. Why 128mm? It's halfway between 126mm and 130mm, so to run 9 speed it was easier to get the rear wheel in and I can still revert to a retro set up if I desire without any fuss.

In practice, it has given me no problems. I'm 83kg and sometimes I like to climb out of the saddle in a big gear to test my stupidity. So far the bike hasn't groaned, exploded, snapped, thrown the wheel or crapped itself if any way.

Trying to get a 130mm axle into a 126 spacing is not difficult, but it can be a bit cumbersome. It takes a little deft wrist action. I'd respace and be done with it.

Grumps

Is this dangerous for a frame? Will this even work?

dd74

Lighthouse Cycles

dd74

Marc

Kuma601

dd74

ultimobici

PdxMark

dd74

FatTireFred

PdxMark

dd74

nightfend

Le Wrench

dd74

dookie

Dave Hickey

Kerry Irons

Sablotny

Uncle Grumpy

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