Ti 'cross frame with braze-ons for racks?

BergMann · Aug 28, 2009

What is the best titanium cross frame/frameset for under $1000 that would offer braze-ons to mount a rear rack?

I'm looking to replace the 20-year old steel Bianchi frame I use as a bad-weather bike and for towing my kids around on/in our Burley trailerbike & Chariot trailer.

My priorities are as follows:

1) Ti frame: weight is secondary, the more lateral stability the better, paint optional. I used to ride Ti MTBs, and want to get off the treadmill of one-season-light frames with fussy finishes I have to worry about scratching. They salt the roads here in Jersey, and I'm tired of worrying about frame corrosion and touching-up every little nick in my paint.

2) Braze ons (rear mandatory, front optional). My old Bianchi is a road frame w/ caliper brake mount, but has threaded eyelets cut into the dropouts to accomodate a rear rack, which I will need on a new frame to mount the Burley "Moose Rack" that serves as the hitching point for our Piccolo trailerbike.

3) Non-"touring" geometry. My thought is to go with a cross frame so I can mount up beefier tires and use the bike on our local "Rails-to-Trails" networks in the winter. The Bianchi is a classic, road-geometry machine (i.e. responsive, but not twitchy, likes to be leaned, not steered) that is actually fun to ride when it's not loaded down w/ tons of gear. Fact is, this bike will be ridden on the road at least 90% of the time, and unhitched/unloaded for half of that, and probably never "toured" with heavy panniers, so I'd rather err on the side of a responsive ride at the expense of "stability" rather than the other way around.

Besides, if I add a 'cross bike to my stable, I might just be convinced to get out and race some 'cross this winter ;~>

I'm just getting started on frameshopping, so any brand/model suggestions or general insights of relevance would be appreciated.

FatTireFred · Aug 28, 2009

rack braze-ons and non-touring geo are kinda working against each other... if ti wasn't mentioned you would hear cries of 'cross check' and 'double cross' and 'cross hairs'. but alas, I think the list of frames fitting all your criteria will be very short

krisdrum · Aug 28, 2009

Pretty sure the "Perform"sky fits the bill, although might lean a bit more towards the touring geo with those long seatstays.

FatTireFred · Aug 28, 2009

krisdrum said:
Pretty sure the "Perform"sky fits the bill, although might lean a bit more towards the touring geo with those long seatstays.

'cept he wants frame AND fork for <$1000

BergMann · Aug 28, 2009

OK, let's widen the net a bit:
Let's keep:
Ti as top priority, and price as second (pref. <$1000), and make geometry third.
After all, I'm not looking for crit-bike twitchy: I've got a TCR Composite that fits that bill already.
To be honest, I prefer the intuitive, leaning-biased steering of my old Bianchi frame to the hyper-twitchy steep frame angles of my TCR for everyday riding.

krisdrum · Aug 28, 2009

FatTireFred said:
'cept he wants frame AND fork for <$1000

Ah, and upon closer look, no braze-ons on the frame. When this frame goes on sale, you can get it in the $800 range, although I think they have seen a big enough uptick in sales of these frames, that they may not go on sale that low for awhile.

PT · Aug 28, 2009

Habanero

BergMann said:
What is the best titanium cross frame/frameset for under $1000 that would offer braze-ons to mount a rear rack?

Got a Habanero Cross frame for my wife -- it has braze-ons and I like the angles and tire clearance. I'm impressed with the workmanship of this value Ti frame (I'm comparing it to my Seven Muse Cross frame, two Black Sheep mtbs, a Merlin road, two Moots YBBs, and an Everti cross frame. Just to clarify, one of the Moots is my wife's, the Everti is my daughter's, the Merlin and one of the Moots is no longer with us. So sue me, I like Ti too...)

http://www.habcycles.com/cross.html

Definitely worth the look.

FatTireFred · Aug 28, 2009

BergMann said:
OK, let's widen the net a bit:
Let's keep:
Ti as top priority, and price as second (pref. <$1000), and make geometry third.
After all, I'm not looking for crit-bike twitchy: I've got a TCR Composite that fits that bill already.
To be honest, I prefer the intuitive, leaning-biased steering of my old Bianchi frame to the hyper-twitchy steep frame angles of my TCR for everyday riding.

not a ton of ti out there these days... esp for <1000 for frame and fork. at that price you're looking at a frame for 800-850, and that's even less common. even habaneros start at 900

krisdrum · Aug 28, 2009

BergMann said:
OK, let's widen the net a bit:
Let's keep:
Ti as top priority, and price as second (pref. <$1000), and make geometry third.
After all, I'm not looking for crit-bike twitchy: I've got a TCR Composite that fits that bill already.
To be honest, I prefer the intuitive, leaning-biased steering of my old Bianchi frame to the hyper-twitchy steep frame angles of my TCR for everyday riding.

What about custom? You could enlist one of the asian ti builders to do a custom touring bike for you (XACD and there is another one). Or even a place like Habanero.

dismal · Aug 28, 2009

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_ti.htm

?

Also, why not look at some aluminum? Lot's more options there.

BergMann · Aug 28, 2009

@Fred: re: budget: if I can find a $1000 frame that fits the bill perfectly and then have to add a fork, so be it (that's what I was trying to communicate with "frame/frameset" above).

Let's just say that while a total frame/fork budget of $1500 might be in the cards, I don't see myself dropping close to $2k for a Scattante frame / fork combo.

Marc · Aug 28, 2009

krisdrum said:
What about custom? You could enlist one of the asian ti builders to do a custom touring bike for you (XACD and there is another one). Or even a place like Habanero.

Of the 3 I'd much sooner do a Habanero, they are a known quantity with a reputation and a warranty to call on if needed...XACD et al, not so much.

A Habanero CX frame starts at $950.

krisdrum · Aug 28, 2009

BergMann said:
@Fred: re: budget: if I can find a $1000 frame that fits the bill perfectly and then have to add a fork, so be it (that's what I was trying to communicate with "frame/frameset" above).

Let's just say that while a total frame/fork budget of $1500 might be in the cards, I don't see myself dropping close to $2k for a Scattante frame / fork combo.

Would you drop 2k on a Lynksey?

carlhulit · Aug 28, 2009

I had a hab ti cross that i recently sold. IT would be great for what your looking for, it tends to the stable end handling wise with longish stays and a low (78mm drop) BB. The headtube is a little on the short side in the 59 and the SA is steep so the are effectively long. If possible i would try and pair it with a longer offset ~50mm fork for better balance and it would serve you well.

Peter P. · Aug 28, 2009

You've got quite a fussy list of things you want out of this bike you want.

That's okay, but you're gonna have to accept it will be hard to locate a stock frame that fits the bill.

My suggestion would be to watch eBay weekly. I see old Litespeed Appalachians up for bid occasionally. It's a Ti 'cross/touring frame. Here's a perfect example:

Litespeed Appalachian

Otherwise, I see your only alternative being custom, and that will be over $1k.

BergMann · Aug 28, 2009

@dismal: one word: SALT. Lots of it here Nov-Mar in Jersey. I want an inert material on a frame that stands a chance of living as long as my 20-year old Bianchi - albeit without the finish issues. I loved my old Ti Litespeeds when I was racing MTB-Marathons and want to get back to the longevity of Ti.

@krisdrum: It's the $2k expenditure on my "B-bike" frame that I object to, not the removable frame stickers! Moot point without the braze-ons, I'm afraid.

BergMann · Aug 28, 2009

@Everyone: thanks for the input.
The Habanero definitely looks interesting.

@PT: how does the handling on the Habanero compare vs. the Seven & Everti (Ti Fighter or Odyssey?) cross frames? (Obviously size plays a role here, but I'd be interested your impressions.)

@Peter: yes, it's amazing how complex it can be to simplify your life: I'm trying to stick to a stable of two road bikes: the A) pretty weather / race-day bike and B) everything else bike.
Say I bump my frame budget up to $1500 - which custom builders get your vote for best-bang-for-your-buck in Ti?
Habanero's website indicates they'll do custom geometry for $1295. I may need it as my preferred effective top-tube length is 58cm.

Marc · Aug 28, 2009

BergMann said:
Say I bump my frame budget up to $1500 - which custom builders get your vote for best-bang-for-your-buck in Ti?
Habanero's website indicates they'll do custom geometry for $1295. I may need it as my preferred effective top-tube length is 58cm.

At the price point you're wanting-about the only custom frame builder with any rep/warranty is Habanero. $1500 may be a great deal of coin, but most of the big names in Ti are twice that for frame only.

I don't know about CX bikes, but for perspective, roadie Mootses are $2900 for off teh peg frames (+$500 for custom), and the Seven Alaris (frame only) starts at $2500 (custom geometry/spec included).

limba · Aug 28, 2009

This is more than you want to spend but it's the only thing I can think of. You can put on full fenders and a rack. It's new so you won't find many/any reviews.

http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a...ce.com/a/pages/frames-_-products/cyclocross/titanium-cyclocross---cooper-cx.php

Gripped · Aug 29, 2009

carlhulit said:
IT would be great for what your looking for, it tends to the stable end handling wise with longish stays and a low (78mm drop) BB.

At 42.5 for all but the largest sized, the stay lengths are typical of most cross bikes. The 78 bottom bracket is low. Too low for racing, atmo. Great for everything else. I rode one to work 10 times over three weeks -- 25 miles each way with about 3.5 miles of smooth winding trail. It was awesome for that.

For the OP's targeted use, I think it's about perfect. And except for pedal strike all the freakin' time, it would be a great race bike. Handling through the corners was outstanding until you smack a pedal on the ground (NOTE: This concerns aggressive racing where a rider is likely to lean over and pedal through all corners, not for regular street or smooth trail use).

Ti 'cross frame with braze-ons for racks?

BergMann

FatTireFred

krisdrum

FatTireFred

BergMann

krisdrum

PT

FatTireFred

krisdrum

dismal

BergMann

Marc

krisdrum

carlhulit

Peter P.

BergMann

BergMann

Marc

limba

Gripped

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