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Wookiebiker said:
Gotta have 2k laying around though :D

Then you have to spend another 1k - 2k for some deep dish wheels on the road bike...though I own my TT wheels. So then it would be which would be better, a crank for my TT bike or power tap race wheels for my road bike? :)
Gotcha. When you mentioned $3.5k, I wasn't sure where the pricing was coming from.

Depending on your gearing, the same crank could theoretically be used on two bikes. I was also hoping to get a generic power tap wheel for general training and a power crank for my TT bike.

Given some new home repair bills, probably just getting the crank for my TT bike.
 
spade2you said:
Depending on your gearing, the same crank could theoretically be used on two bikes. I was also hoping to get a generic power tap wheel for general training and a power crank for my TT bike.

Given some new home repair bills, probably just getting the crank for my TT bike.
One of my teammates has an SRM crank that he switches between his TT and Road bikes. Basically, he has the same BB installed on both of them and all he needs to do is remove the non-drive side crank arm to switch it from bike to bike.

Works fairly well for his purposes, and if I could afford one (or a Quark for that matter) I'd do the same thing :)
 
Wookiebiker said:
One of my teammates has an SRM crank that he switches between his TT and Road bikes. Basically, he has the same BB installed on both of them and all he needs to do is remove the non-drive side crank arm to switch it from bike to bike.

Works fairly well for his purposes, and if I could afford one (or a Quark for that matter) I'd do the same thing :)
Quark would be nice if they made a Campy version, although something about having to send in the SRM for batteries and calibration does not sit well with me.
 
Hank Stamper said:
I'm not a data guy but I don't 'get' the value of using one in a race. For example if I were to compare power numbers of a race I managed to be smart in to one where I got gapped or fell off the back the power meter would show the opposite of how I raced. My goal in a race is not to do the most work I can.
Exactly why you want a PM. Example, I did a crit where my normalized power was way high for me, my heart rate was maxed and I bearly held on to finish. 25miles btw.

4 days later in a 50 mile park race I sat in the whole time until the second to last lap. Moved up and finished 12th out of 110 riders, half in a Cat higher than mine.

When I looked at the numbers side by side I road 1.3 MPH faster in the 50 mile race, my power output was 30% lower than the crit and my average HR was 137. I did less, went longer, faster and finished better and truth be told I thought it was my easiest race of the year.

So why power meter? Well for one it validated many things we know but maybe don't have data to support (sitting in, conserving energy, etc..)

Also really cool to see what you can do in a race and how it will feel with different overall efforts. I was shocked that my pace was that much faster and my fatigue was nil.

Anyways, I love racing with power.
 
Sonomasnap said:
Thanks for asking though.
It was more of a rhetorical question. If you don't understand why you didn't win, how can you do things better next time? I don't think of being "boxed in" as something that happens to me, it's something I allow to happen by failing to position myself where I should be or to protect a position I have.
 
olr1 said:
I read a quote about this the other day;

Amateur cyclists using power meters is like employing an accountant to tell you how poor you are...

Ahh yes the whole you don't deserve that argument - Total BS and usually said by someone taht has not idea how to use a powermeter. Not that they are nessary but some of us know how to use them and get them to help us maximize the little time we have to train.
 
asgelle said:
It was more of a rhetorical question. If you don't understand why you didn't win, how can you do things better next time? I don't think of being "boxed in" as something that happens to me, it's something I allow to happen by failing to position myself where I should be or to protect a position I have.
Fair enough. Could I have gotten in better position? Maybe. Probably 20-25 guys battling for position, very common to have major crashes on this course at that point, trying to pick the right point to jump, etc... etc.... but you are right, I did not win and let myself get boxed in. Working on that.
 
Wookiebiker said:
One of my teammates has an SRM crank that he switches between his TT and Road bikes. Basically, he has the same BB installed on both of them and all he needs to do is remove the non-drive side crank arm to switch it from bike to bike.

Works fairly well for his purposes, and if I could afford one (or a Quark for that matter) I'd do the same thing :)
This is what I do with my Quark - works well
 
Not that they are nessary

That's kind of my thinking...

I'm not against them, I just don't see the point. You still have to do the work, PMs are just another way of measuring and auditing that work, but it's the work that counts.

Anyway, I'm not here for the PM war, I'm sure it's been done to death..
 
olr1 said:
Not that they are nessary

That's kind of my thinking...

I'm not against them, I just don't see the point. You still have to do the work, PMs are just another way of measuring and auditing that work, but it's the work that counts.

Anyway, I'm not here for the PM war, I'm sure it's been done to death..
Not necessary to whom?

Sure, you can train on rollers and a trainer and get some idea of performance improvement or regression, but how does one get info on the road? I was almost anti power meter last year because I was able to get some good info from my trainer in regards to the various gearings and intervals, but having done countless TTs under different weather conditions and adding some aero gear, it's honestly hard to say when I'm in better shape or if the conditions are simply easier/harder.
 
So you are supposed to just go out and ride hard and hope you get better?

Using a Powermeter has taken my fitness to a level I didnt think I could achieve with heart rate based training.
With a Powermeter I know EXACTLY how hard I am working and I know the EXACT areas I need to work harder in. I also know what tactics to employ when in a racing or riding with stronger riders.

When I was sick my heart rate was sky high on my rides, yet power was low.. If I had just been using a heart rate monitor I would think that I was ok and working out hard. When in reality I needed to take a few days off.
Powermeters are the best thing that has happened to cycling and with Garmin now in the business it will make it affordable for everyone.


olr1 said:
Not that they are nessary

That's kind of my thinking...

I'm not against them, I just don't see the point. You still have to do the work, PMs are just another way of measuring and auditing that work, but it's the work that counts.

Anyway, I'm not here for the PM war, I'm sure it's been done to death..
 
olr1 said:
Not that they are nessary

That's kind of my thinking...

I'm not against them, I just don't see the point. You still have to do the work, PMs are just another way of measuring and auditing that work, but it's the work that counts.

Anyway, I'm not here for the PM war, I'm sure it's been done to death..
your mis understanding what I mean by not mnessary - yes you still have to do the work but how are you measuring that? HR? That can work but it takes years to learn you HR drift to accuratly measure the effort your putting and even then it can be affected by so many things. Preceived exertion? Almost worthless to me. A power meter gives me something definative I can reference each time. If all the intervals need to be done at 400 watts+ then I know exactly what to shoot for each time. Now sure I could make a training plan not based on power but withe power I find I can get fit alot faster and I know exactly what marks I need to hit to achieve my work out.
 
Sure, you can train on rollers and a trainer and get some idea of performance improvement or regression, but how does one get info on the road

yes you still have to do the work but how are you measuring that


You see, this is why I don't see the point.

You are asking 'How on earth can we measure our improvements without a Powermeter?'

Um, well, given that you are training for competition, surely the way to measure improvement is in better results; better times in TTs, better results in RRs? You know, like all those racers who have gone before you, like all those racers who don't use PMs..

It's as if the training tool, the PM, takes on a significance way beyond it's original function, and the things ascribed to it are nothing short of wonderful; it's a tool, just a way of measuring stuff, not anything other than that.

As Sonomasnap eloquently reveals above; he sat in for a race then fluffed the sprint; he doesn't need a PM, he needs to learn to sprint.

As I said, I'm not against them, I just don't see the need, they produce another set of numbers to geek over, but you still have to do the work.

...and cycling competition is about so much more than watts per kilo.

Anyway, I appreciate I've pulled the thread off topic, and I'm not making any great contribution..
 
I am a new power meter user this year. Didn't spend a ton on it, with deal through bike shop sponsor and getting wired PT comp w/ open pro was around $500. I am amatuer rider with limited time to train 8-10 hrs/wk. I've really found the powertap to be very useful and with the WKO program a great tool for me and would not want to go forward without. I especially like the WKO performance manager graph, it is motivating trying to keep that blue line going up and when the fatigue line gets too high take it easy for a few days. I am more excited to do intervals and fast rides to see what kind of watts I can do that day. The only downside is those days when you can't hit the numbers I want and can be a little worrisome, but there is something to learn from that as well.
 
olr1 said:
Sure, you can train on rollers and a trainer and get some idea of performance improvement or regression, but how does one get info on the road

yes you still have to do the work but how are you measuring that


You see, this is why I don't see the point.

You are asking 'How on earth can we measure our improvements without a Powermeter?'

Um, well, given that you are training for competition, surely the way to measure improvement is in better results; better times in TTs, better results in RRs? You know, like all those racers who have gone before you, like all those racers who don't use PMs..

It's as if the training tool, the PM, takes on a significance way beyond it's original function, and the things ascribed to it are nothing short of wonderful; it's a tool, just a way of measuring stuff, not anything other than that.

As Sonomasnap eloquently reveals above; he sat in for a race then fluffed the sprint; he doesn't need a PM, he needs to learn to sprint.

As I said, I'm not against them, I just don't see the need, they produce another set of numbers to geek over, but you still have to do the work.

...and cycling competition is about so much more than watts per kilo.

Anyway, I appreciate I've pulled the thread off topic, and I'm not making any great contribution..
Ok, do you even race? Fitness and placing do not always correlate.

In a TT, weather is often the major variable, but using different equipment such as a deeper front whee, disc wheel, and aerodynamically enhanced (or so they say) skin suit. You can try to gauge yourself to other riders in a TT, but if a rival rider simply has an off day, it doesn't mean you're in better shape than the last event.

In a mass start, there are entirely too many variables that can work in your favor or against you, almost regardless of condition. Somehow at my best fitness, I had gotten behind a crash or was too far back when the move was made. Hell, if you're a power sprinter and you struggle on a race with a climbing finish or if you're a climber and do mediocre in a sprint finish, what does that tell ya? Not much.
 
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