I'm Done With Internal Gear Hubs

Killroy · Nov 27, 2011

I've had my Civia Bryan for a couple of years and I'm done with it and here is why:

I hurt my shoulder mounting biking, and I started riding my Trek Madone to work because it is easier to move around off the bike.

I started using my GPS to record the difference in average speeds from each bike. The Civia is ~8% slower or ~6 min over my 18 mile commute. I'll probably switch back to a convectional chain and derailleur.

I bought the bike because, I liked the low maintenance of the belt drive and internal gear hub, and the disc brakes. All of those thing turned out to be more negative than positive:

1. The belt drive skips if it is not tensioned correctly.
2. Tensioning is difficult and has to be done carefully each time the wheel is removed.
3. The Alfine 8 Gear Hub is inefficient. I can feel the hub drag and I have measured it.
4. When the belt is tensioned correctly, you can notice a lot more drag in the hub.
5. Its hard to change a rear flat.
6. The bike is heavy at 29.2 lb with no fenders or accessories. (Steel is not real).
7. The low end Avid Disc brakes (BB5) are dangerously bad and usually rub when adjusted for brake power.
8. The no name Versa shifter is not good.
9. Tires are too big and heavy for me.
10. I think the front fork is overbuilt and even with big tires the ride is harsh.

Reynolds531 · Nov 27, 2011

But it's really cool in concept.

Killroy · Nov 27, 2011

I realize this is a rant, but I hope it is a informative one. For short distances, you would never know, but for the distances that I commute, its a drag.

I would like the following for my commute purposes:

1. convectional chain
2. 1X9 or 1X8 drivetrain (I don't need a bolt on axle)
3. big road calipers or better disc brakes
4. big full coverage fenders
5. Equipped with full fenders the bike should be <22 lb

PlatyPius · Nov 27, 2011

I used to work for a shop that sold Spot bikes. The first thing I noticed was how much drag the belt drive had. It was a LOT. A lot of your energy is going to go into overcoming the friction of the belt. 2 of the Spot single speeds that we sold shredded the drive belt within 1000 miles. Whether that was due to the customer not getting the belt tensioned properly after a flat is possible, but we weren't able to determine that.

I've always wondered why IGHs are so popular for commuting. "More reliable, easier to service!" Really? I would bet that flat tires happen more frequently than spontaneous derailleur explosions. Me, I'd rather be able to change a flat quickly so I could get where I was going.

Pablo · Nov 27, 2011

Thanks for the rant. It's yet another vote against my dream of an IGH for my mtb.

freighttraininguphill · Nov 27, 2011

I have a couple IGH trikes for utility purposes, and I've had regular IGH bikes in the past. All of them are too damn slow! One of them has a Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hub. The thing often slips after shifting to second or third gear. The LBS I bought it from told me that is "normal" for those hubs.

Nothing can beat a conventional chain and derailleur drivetrain for simplicity, speed, and ease of maintenance, IMHO.

PlatyPius · Nov 27, 2011

Killroy said:
I've had my Civia Bryan for a couple of years and I'm done with it and here is why:

I hurt my shoulder mounting biking, and I started riding my Trek Madone to work because it is easier to move around off the bike.

I started using my GPS to record the difference in average speeds from each bike. The Civia is ~8% slower or ~6 min over my 18 mile commute. I'll probably switch back to a convectional chain and derailleur.

I bought the bike because, I liked the low maintenance of the belt drive and internal gear hub, and the disc brakes. All of those thing turned out to be more negative than positive:

1. The belt drive skips if it is not tensioned correctly.
2. Tensioning is difficult and has to be done carefully each time the wheel is removed.
3. The Alfine 8 Gear Hub is inefficient. I can feel the hub drag and I have measured it.
4. When the belt is tensioned correctly, you can notice a lot more drag in the hub.
5. Its hard to change a rear flat.
6. The bike is heavy at 29.2 lb with no fenders or accessories. (Steel is not real).
7. The low end Avid Disc brakes (BB5) are dangerously bad and usually rub when adjusted for brake power.
8. The no name Versa shifter is not good.
9. Tires are too big and heavy for me.
10. I think the front fork is overbuilt and even with big tires the ride is harsh.

BTW, the Versa shifter isn't a no-name. It's a Microshift. I hate them.

moschika · Nov 27, 2011

i appreciate this kind of review. i'm not currently in the market, but often considered an IGH for my next project, whenever that is. you seemed to have addressed some things i've wondered about.

Squidward · Nov 27, 2011

Killroy said:
7. The low end Avid Disc brakes (BB5) are dangerously bad and usually rub when adjusted for brake power.

The Avid mechanical disk brakes always seem to have the issue of the pads dragging on the rotor no matter how well adjusted they are or how true the rotor is. The BB5 calipers lack the adjustment for the static pad so you'll need to readjust the centering of the system manually as the pads wear. With the BB7s you don't have this issue, but, the pads still drag. I don't think it really hurts the performance of you and your bike, it's more an annoyance than anything else.

55x11 · Nov 27, 2011

Killroy said:
I've had my Civia Bryan for a couple of years and I'm done with it and here is why:

I hurt my shoulder mounting biking, and I started riding my Trek Madone to work because it is easier to move around off the bike.

I started using my GPS to record the difference in average speeds from each bike. The Civia is ~8% slower or ~6 min over my 18 mile commute. I'll probably switch back to a convectional chain and derailleur.

I bought the bike because, I liked the low maintenance of the belt drive and internal gear hub, and the disc brakes. All of those thing turned out to be more negative than positive:

1. The belt drive skips if it is not tensioned correctly.
2. Tensioning is difficult and has to be done carefully each time the wheel is removed.
3. The Alfine 8 Gear Hub is inefficient. I can feel the hub drag and I have measured it.
4. When the belt is tensioned correctly, you can notice a lot more drag in the hub.
5. Its hard to change a rear flat.
6. The bike is heavy at 29.2 lb with no fenders or accessories. (Steel is not real).
7. The low end Avid Disc brakes (BB5) are dangerously bad and usually rub when adjusted for brake power.
8. The no name Versa shifter is not good.
9. Tires are too big and heavy for me.
10. I think the front fork is overbuilt and even with big tires the ride is harsh.

I have always wondered whenever someone rails about how great the Internal Gear Hub or the belt drive is - well, then how come derailleurs and chains have been around for so long and are still much more popular? I think there are a lot of "hidden" problems with some of these novelty items, and your post addresses some of them very well. Bikesnob had a post about how much PITA is his slightly misaligned beltdrive bike that he was testing. These sounds good in theory, or in concept stage until you run into minor maintenance (flat tire?) or misalignment issue.

Thanks for the rant.

Kerry Irons · Nov 28, 2011

Normality

freighttraininguphill said:
I have a couple IGH trikes for utility purposes, and I've had regular IGH bikes in the past. All of them are too damn slow! One of them has a Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hub. The thing often slips after shifting to second or third gear. The LBS I bought it from told me that is "normal" for those hubs.

The shop is partly right. Slipping gears are normal for a badly adjusted SA hub. Otherwise, no.

freighttraininguphill · Nov 28, 2011

Kerry Irons said:
The shop is partly right. Slipping gears are normal for a badly adjusted SA hub. Otherwise, no.

The hub was properly adjusted, and tweaking it didn't do any good. It catches, then slips once after shifting, then works fine until the next shift. Very annoying! Luckily it seems to be an intermittent problem.

StageHand · Nov 28, 2011

I could have told you all of that based on the picture. Except the part about the belt drive.

Nobody buys IG hubs for their efficiency. They buy them so they don't have to replace their chain and cassette all the time. You might not have know that Microshift was junk, but they don't have much positive feedback out there. Oh, look, big heavy tires! Of course this bike is slower than the Madone, there should never have been any expectation of that.

There's nothing you'll ever commute on that won't compromise something, and people who pick Civia bikes are compromising performance.

That said, even knowing that, you might not know you wouldn't like it. Sorry.

wvucyclist · Nov 28, 2011

So what size is it and how much will you want for it? My commute is much shorter, so 8% won't be as big of a deal, and my commuter now is 35 lbs (tank, yes) so it might even be faster. PM me with details if you're looking to unload it, which I'd assume you are.

freighttraininguphill · Nov 29, 2011

Kerry Irons said:
I've dealt with several SA hubs over the years and never had this issue. It sounds like maybe you had a sticky cable. Otherwise, you got a defective hub.

I have a feeling it's the latter. Too bad I can't convert the drivertrain to an 8-speed derailleur setup. When the hub finally dies I'll see if I can put a Shimano Nexus 8-speed hub in there.

Kerry Irons · Nov 29, 2011

Hub defect

freighttraininguphill said:
The hub was properly adjusted, and tweaking it didn't do any good. It catches, then slips once after shifting, then works fine until the next shift. Very annoying! Luckily it seems to be an intermittent problem.

I've dealt with several SA hubs over the years and never had this issue. It sounds like maybe you had a sticky cable. Otherwise, you got a defective hub.

PlatyPius · Nov 29, 2011

freighttraininguphill said:
I have a feeling it's the latter. Too bad I can't convert the drivertrain to an 8-speed derailleur setup. When the hub finally dies I'll see if I can put a Shimano Alfine 11-speed hub in there.

Fixed it for you....

freighttraininguphill · Nov 29, 2011

PlatyPius said:
Fixed it for you....

I was reading your post in another LBS. I mentioned the Shimano Alfine, and they told me it's the newest Shimano IGH. Thanks for letting me know about that! :thumbsup:

The owner has a service manual for various brands of IGH. I told him what was wrong with mine, and he found something in the manual about the little chain that comes out of the hub being loose. He hand-tightened that, but I still had one slipping incident. It's so intermittent that it's difficult to diagnose! :mad2:

StageHand · Nov 29, 2011

freighttraininguphill said:
The hub was properly adjusted, and tweaking it didn't do any good. It catches, then slips once after shifting, then works fine until the next shift. Very annoying! Luckily it seems to be an intermittent problem.

Sounds like what it does when you shift while pedaling.

freighttraininguphill · Nov 29, 2011

StageHand said:
Sounds like what it does when you shift while pedaling.

I'm not that hamfisted. I know better than that, so I have a feeling it's either a defective hub (story of my life!) or another adjustment problem.

I'm Done With Internal Gear Hubs

Killroy

Reynolds531

Killroy

PlatyPius

Pablo

freighttraininguphill

PlatyPius

moschika

Squidward

55x11

Kerry Irons

freighttraininguphill

StageHand

wvucyclist

freighttraininguphill

Kerry Irons

PlatyPius

freighttraininguphill

StageHand

freighttraininguphill

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities