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Discussion starter · #22 ·
If you have pull the trigger yet, here something you should take into consideration when determine 105 vs Tiagra. Hood shape, the ergomonics between the two shifters are different. Personally, I've never been a bigger fan of the old 105, which is now the new Tiagra, hoods. I found them a little too big for my hands, and on long rides they become some what uncomfortable. Just something to think about.
I have a pretty good sized pair of mitts. :wink5:
 
I'm building a 2012 64cm specialized allez frame set (1 of 12 left in country and discontinued for 2013). I like the lightness of the Tiagra shifting but like the under tape 105 cables. Both have the same shift styles (don't think I could get used to the Sram's). I'm leaning towards 105's to avoid regret and for the cable routing and would have a noteworthy increase in shifting effort that you probably would stop noticing after a few rides anyway. If I wasn't building I'd take the tiagra equipped bike. Down the road I'd like a good backup/ loaner bike and tiagra's would probably be my choice.... But by then tiagra's could be routed like the 105's anyway and sora's might not have that weird thumb shifter.

Comfort, price, and ease of maintenance = Tiagra
Negligible increase in performance with arguably more stylish looks = 105
 
For 2013, it's gone. The new Sora (3500) is still 9 speed, but now employs inner/ outer levers a-la-Tiagra, 105, Ultegra.....
View attachment 264218
Wow. That's the first I've seen/heard that. Only a matter of time before the Tiagra has the inner cable routing. If it's not the next edition, I'd say the one after that at the latest.

BTW: I've got a 2011 Allez with the 9 speed Tiagra and have nothing bad to say about it. It does everything you ask of it, and smoothly at that.
 
So if Sora is like the old 105, does that mean the new 105 is like the old Ultegra?
I think it's more like new Sora is like the previous Tiagra and the new Tiagra is like the previous 105. But essentially it's Shimano continuing 'trickle down', where upgrades/ refinements/ enhancements introduced in a higher end model find their way into the next model down, then the next... over a period of time.

JMO, but 105 and Ultegra have been so close in performance in the past couple of years that I think differences are primarily in finish, weight, forged/ machined chainrings... Purely aesthetic changes like hidden der housings aren't what I'd call meaningful upgrades and may actually hinder performance. As always, YMMV.
 
Is that for sure how the 'trickle down' works?

I haven't every heard with certainty that they take their old group (or maybe just the levers), put on a new face, and sell it with a number that's 100 higher... I can see why, since it costs just about nothing to do.. and they only have to upgrade one group every couple of years. The parts go together a little like lego, so it's not hard to figure. It's always been legend and myth when I've heard it. It makes sense, but maybe it's an easy answer to connect dots for people, and not truth.

The way I figure, the difference in actual manufactured parts is only a few dollars when a group gets upgraded (maybe effort springs, return springs, lever fulcrum) which gets amortized over 100,000 or so units per year (I am estimating) so the parts cost is what, five bucks more? Amortized engineering and production tooling costs about the same... not counting bezel and trim differences, and only for one group, change costs aren't really great. This is how I figure that the new Tiagra is so highly regarded, because the old 105 was so good.

IMO, I tried the new 5700 105 and 4700 Tiagra, and 105 had much less effort and less action distance, and smoother. I was very impressed. The Tiagra felt like it needed a lot of distance. I almost wish I hadn't tried that 105.
 
Is that for sure how the 'trickle down' works?

I haven't every heard with certainty that they take their old group (or maybe just the levers), put on a new face, and sell it with a number that's 100 higher... I can see why, since it costs just about nothing to do.. and they only have to upgrade one group every couple of years. The parts go together a little like lego, so it's not hard to figure. It's always been legend and myth when I've heard it. It makes sense, but maybe it's an easy answer to connect dots for people, and not truth.
Those are your words, not mine. What I said was... essentially it's Shimano continuing 'trickle down', where upgrades/ refinements/ enhancements introduced in a higher end model find their way into the next model down, then the next... over a period of time.

Since I've never disassembled a shifter, I can't provide the specifics of how trickle down is employed, but the results speak for themselves. And that's the extent of my curiosity - what the enhancements will do for me and at what cost.

IMO, I tried the new 5700 105 and 4700 Tiagra, and 105 had much less effort and less action distance, and smoother. I was very impressed. The Tiagra felt like it needed a lot of distance. I almost wish I hadn't tried that 105.
I run previous generation 105 on one bike and an Ultegra mix on another, and my impressions of the new Tiagra was that it matched both in function/ feel. Haven't yet tried the new 105, so have yet to form an opinion on that comparison.

FWIW, I log in excess of 6k miles annually and am confident 10 speed Tiagra would fulfill most recreational riders needs. Wants is another matter....
 
Those are not just my words, I have read them many times over years. I couldn't make an assumption that the parts make their way down the line with each iteration, I can see why someone would, but that doesn't make it true. It would be great to know if that's the case or how the trickle down of technology happens.

As an aside, I am guessing that Shimano did a lot of work on their 105 group for 2012 expecting it to be their volume item, almost a new brand face for new/intermediate cyclists. If you get the chance, it's a nice set to try out.

I agree with you, if you want to ride, just get on a bike that works and ride it.
 
Those are not just my words, I have read them many times over years.
Gotcha. I misinterpreted your meaning, so... my mistake.

As an aside, I am guessing that Shimano did a lot of work on their 105 group for 2012 expecting it to be their volume item, almost a new brand face for new/intermediate cyclists. If you get the chance, it's a nice set to try out.
You very well may be right, but for a variety of reasons and considering the intro of the Tourney and upgraded Sora (along with last years Tiagra), I think the emphasis is slightly tilted towards the entry level, probably as a counter to SRAM's fairly recent Apex intro.

Because general perceptions/ purchasing environments change fairly rapidly, I think it's hard to read market trends, but IMO ~1k actually buys a lot of bike nowadays. Good for the consumer....
 
For 2013, it's gone. The new Sora (3500) is still 9 speed, but now employs inner/ outer levers a-la-Tiagra, 105, Ultegra.....
View attachment 264218
Well that was fast! For a non-competition bike that'd be just fine. Most bikes are overbuilt for their intended purposes anyway. Dura Ace all the way down to Sora doesn't make a difference for leisure riding.... Especially here in Illinois on the flats where I use 3 or 4 gears total depending on wind and how big of a hurry I'm in. Now that the comfort and ease of use have trickled down, it really doesn't make a difference for most.
 
Probably a little late to be responding to this but I have two 2012 bikes; one with Tiagra and one with 105 and I think I actually like the Tiagra BETTER. For my next bike I'll stick with Tiagra, try Sram, or go to Ultegra. Don't pay more for the 105, save the money and use it for something else.
 
I just got a 2012 Specialized Tarmac with all Tiagra on sale for $1600 marked down from two grand. The same bike with SRAM was still at $2000. No difference but the component group. I just didn't see the difference being worth an extra $400 and went with the Tarmac with Tiagra. No regrets! Save the money and get something that will really make a change like a new wheelset. That's my plan!
 
I just got a 2012 Specialized Tarmac with all Tiagra on sale for $1600 marked down from two grand. The same bike with SRAM was still at $2000. No difference but the component group. I just didn't see the difference being worth an extra $400 and went with the Tarmac with Tiagra. No regrets! Save the money and get something that will really make a change like a new wheelset. That's my plan!
Just a FYI, the 2012 Tarmac w/ Tiagra MSRP'd at $2k while the 2012 Tarmac Apex MSRP'd for $2200, so at $2k it was discounted, just not as much as your bike.

That aside, you got a good deal and a very nice bike, so congrats and enjoy!
 
I just got a 2012 Specialized Tarmac with all Tiagra on sale for $1600 marked down from two grand. The same bike with SRAM was still at $2000. No difference but the component group. I just didn't see the difference being worth an extra $400 and went with the Tarmac with Tiagra. No regrets! Save the money and get something that will really make a change like a new wheelset. That's my plan!
Good luck. Not sure I would have Sobe the same but a Tarmac at that price is a good deal.

You can upgrade to Sram later. ;)
 
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