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punchy

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello.

As im slowly but surely learning about bikes in as much detail as I can and having recently built my first bike from beginning to end. My maintenance skills are also slowly evolving. Im aslo becoming a little particular about details on the bike.

This has been playing on my mind for quite some time. Ive noticed that the axle nuts on my wheels, front and back always develop surface rust. Now I know that an easy fix for this is to take them off and clean them up on a wired wheel and they will look as good as new. Unfortunately, I don't have a wired wheel for this purpose in my garage...yet ! I also don't want to have to do this. Not that its hard. I just simply don't want to excersize that option.

What I do want is a titanium replacement. Ive searched every bicycle site that I know of looking for titanium axle nuts to replace them. There are plenty of titanium bolts and nuts out there but I haven't been able to source an axle specific nut. Im not clued up on thread sizes, I see such things such as M8, M6 or M5 bolts and nuts. But I haven't yet worked out exactly how to interpret these sizes. Obviously the larger the number the bigger the bolt. And ive gathered that an M5 bolt for example will probably requite a 5mm allen key. But I somehow don't think any of these bolts or nuts I have come across are an axle specific nut. Im sure they will be a lot smaller than they appear on the web page if I were to have them delivered to my door. They also don't have that built in domed washer thingy you get with a standard axle nut.

So all this fuss has brought me to this very helpful website. I didnt think it would be such a difficult task. Im hoping that someone can point me in the right direction and have me thinking 'well, why the hell couldn't I find that before?'

Secondly, why are titanium nuts and bolts so damn expensive anyways ? The price difference seems to be ridiculous. Yes ok, there is probably far less demand for it and so the tooling up costs to produce them would be expensive. But, it really is an expansive option.

Besides my winge on price, I still want them, as I will only require 4 for my fixie.

Thanks

Steve
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
Yes I will consider stainless. But preferred option is Ti.

In actual fact I havent been able to find any axle nuts anywhere. Just head set, seat post, rack, crank nuts n bolts etc etc. But no axle specific bolts ??

Surely they are out there.

Steve
 
#4 · (Edited)
In over 40 years of messing with those, never had rust develop on track axle nuts. My guess is that you're using inferior axle nuts and/or ruining the plating with an inferior or worn wrench. Ti or stainless nuts are a bad idea, they may not be strong enough for the torques needed. Size depends on the hub. There are 10 x 1, 9 x 26 tpi, 9.5 x 26 tpi, and 9 x 1 axle nuts. Get the ones with the integrated, but freely spinning, washer.

Here's one source to call. Just as an example, the $$$$ nut at the link is one of the best you can buy. It'll never rust unless you mistreat it with a bad tool or by overzealous cleaning using degreasers.

CAMPAGNOLO Track Axle Nut - Front [153-269-17] : • Milwaukee Bicycle Co. • Ben's Cycle

.
 
#5 ·
wim said:
In over 40 years of messing with those, never had rust develop on track axle nuts. My guess is that you're using inferior axle nuts and/or ruining the plating with an inferior or worn wrench. Ti or stainless nuts are a bad idea, they may not be strong enough for the torques needed. Size depends on the hub. There are 10 x 1, 9 x 26 tpi, 9.5 x 26 tpi, and 9 x 1 axle nuts. Get the ones with the integrated, but freely spinning, washer.

Here's one source to call. Just as an example, the $$$$ nut at the link is one of the best you can buy. It'll never rust unless you mistreat it with a bad tool or by overzealous cleaning using degreasers.

CAMPAGNOLO Track Axle Nut - Front [153-269-17] : • Milwaukee Bicycle Co. • Ben's Cycle

.
Click to expand...
^^^^^^this! To the OP, you probably can't find Ti axle nuts because it sounds like a bad idea...just because titanium is a strong metal doesn't mean it has the right strength for the forces required for a high-torque application. Besides, that would be such a niche market that the tooling and manufacturing of such an item would be prohibitively expensive.

Do this: buy some new good-quality plated axle nuts like Wim suggested (with the captive washer), install them and rub some Renaissance Wax on them. They will not rust unless you abuse them.
 
#7 ·
Ti nuts and bolts are a terrible choice for places where any torque or stress is required. Ti bolts behave like brittle rubber (winding up and distorting as you attempt to tighten/loosen them), and Ti nuts/bolts can easily seize and snap. There is no way you could get Ti nuts tight enough to stop the rear wheel from shifting in the dropouts. Ti bolts for things limit screws or cable adjusters are fine. As others have suggested, get yourself a high quality set of wheel nuts with integral washers and be happy.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Wow. $28 for a nut ?? That was far more than I expected. Ok so Ti isn't a good idea. I obviously have inferior quality nuts as I definetly don't think im abusing my nuts :rolleyes: in anyway. And my spanners are fine.

So thats $112 for just 4 nuts ? :shocked:

Ive always liked the allen key axle set up on some of the higher end hubs out there. It suddenly sounds like an even better idea to get one of those...Eventually !

Thanks for the advice guys. I can't see myself spending over $100 for 4 nuts. But I have been known to be quite extravagant at times. I do own a Surly Travellers Check with S+S couplers,a Rohloff and a Thompson seat post and head stem, so im no cheap ass. I definetly appreciate a quality product.

I'll just sit back and mull over this idea for a while. :thumbsup:

Steve
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Ok guys. Just came across this.

Halo Axle Nuts and Washers - M10 - 10 mm

Now if Ti is considered to be too brittle for axle nuts, can someone explain why aluminium axle nuts are an option ?

And secondly. Are these a viable option ? Im sure with a little care they should do the job yeah ? It will also solve my corrosion problem gripe. And just for a little extra bonus, they come in different colors.

What do you's think ?

Steve
 
#10 ·
punchy said:
Ok guys. Just came across this.

Halo Axle Nuts and Washers - M10 - 10 mm

Now if Ti is considered to be too brittle for axle nuts, can someone explain why aluminium axle nuts are an option ?

And secondly. Are these a viable option ? Im sure with a little care they should do the job yeah ? It will also solve my corrosion problem gripe. And just for a little extra bonus, they come in different colors.

What do you's think ?

Steve
Click to expand...
Aluminum nuts would scare the hell out of me....you don't want something as important as track nuts failing on you..I'd stick with good quality chrome or stainless


You haven't mentioned what hub you are using....Formula hubs( and Formula's many variations such as Origin 8, IRO, etc..) use a 10mm rear and 9mm front....I use Dura Ace track nuts on my Formula hubs as Shimano uses 10mm rear and 9mm front as well
 
#11 ·
Those aluminum axle nuts are crazy...and I'd really hesitate to use them in a high-torque application.

Back in the day of square-taper BBs, several companies made aluminum crank bolts. You had to use the stock steel ones to actually tighten the crankarms to the spindle, and then remove them, install the aluminum ones and snug them just beyond hand-tight. They simply weren't strong enough to do the heavy lifting on their own, and I suspect aluminum track nuts would be the same.
 
#12 ·
As Dave and Silver pointed out, Al wheel nuts may even be less appropriate than Ti wheel nuts. Al nuts may work once or twice, but they will inevitably strip out or snap after tightening them a couple times. Ti nor Al nuts are not capable of handling the torque required to prevent the wheel form slipping in the dropouts without high risk of the nut failing. Just because some boutique company offers fancy looking parts doesn’t mean they are suitable for their intended use.

for your safety and those around you, stick with steel wheel nuts. There is nothing wrong with surface rust on nuts. I agree $20/nut is not necessary. Your local hardware store may even have nuts with captive washers - if they do, you're probably looking at less than $2 for a set of four. Steel nuts will last as long for years.
 
#13 ·
Yoyodyne used to have a broad selection of Ti fasteners for motorcycle use. I use a few on an old race bike but it gets safety wired and inspected before I roll it in front of a Tech Inspector at the track. You'd need to have OCD for a bicycle.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the link Special eyes. Stainless Steel sounds good. Not clued up on sizing though. I have a fee SS bikes that would benefit from these nuts. They are all standard nut sizing, they must be, as they all take the same size nuts.

Could you recommend me the specific size I would require from that link please, for front and back ?

Cheers.
 
#18 ·
punchy said:
Thanks for the link Special eyes. Stainless Steel sounds good. Not clued up on sizing though. I have a fee SS bikes that would benefit from these nuts. They are all standard nut sizing, they must be, as they all take the same size nuts.

Could you recommend me the specific size I would require from that link please, for front and back ?

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Forget those, they're just normal, everyday nuts. You want actual bicycle axle nuts. I can't believe that people have had this much trouble finding these damn things.

Problem Solvers Axle Nuts > Components > Wheel Goods > Hub Small Parts | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop
 
#19 ·
Obviously none of you are aerospace engineers. Where do you get the notion that titanium isn’t strong enough to create enough tension in a bolted application? The only consideration is going to be galling with the steel thread of the axle. So long as the serrated washer is still there I wouldn’t have a problem at all using titanium. Your legs really aren’t that strong.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Rndm said:
Obviously none of you are aerospace engineers. Where do you get the notion that titanium isn’t strong enough to create enough tension in a bolted application? The only consideration is going to be galling with the steel thread of the axle. So long as the serrated washer is still there I wouldn’t have a problem at all using titanium. Your legs really aren’t that strong.
Click to expand...
You do realize you are responding to a 14 year old thread, last updated 12 years ago? You do also understand that what may work in the the aerospace arena might not work on a simple bicycle. I would speculate every single fastener in the aerospace industry is purpose designed and modeled for its specific use. In that setting, any material can potentially be viable. The common bicycle still uses many features, such as solid axles from when first designed >100 years ago, when no exotic fasteners existed and weight was of little concern. I'm sure if NASA were to design a bicycle today without any concerns for long standing standards, I'm sure it would be quite different from what we have today.

What personal experience do you have with securing a rear wheel in track or horizontal dropouts so the wheel doesn't slip? Are you old enough to recall the days when wing nuts were often used as wheel nuts for solid axle hubs - so one could adress road side flats without having to carry along a stout wrench? If so, what percentage of wing nuts could hold a rear wheel without slipping? A hint - ~0%. Our legs really are plenty strong enough to cause a rear axle to slip in the dropout. Even when I was a 120lb kid and resembled an emaciated Beafran broomstick, I could not secure rear wheels sufficiently with anything other than steel axle nuts with captive washers tightened with a stout wrench. There is a reason why vertical dropouts came to be, at the expense of adjustability.

Share with us your actual experience securing solid axle hubs in track or horizontal dropouts with anything other than steel wheel nuts.
 
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