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Duane Behrens

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From Giant's sales catalog:

"The frame has been designed with Giant’s fit, form, and function geometry, all built into a compact road frame. The Avail Composite 2 uses performance grade composite, making it light and agile on climbs and stiff on the descents. Giant manufactures their own composite mix . . . "". . . . . the seatpost and fork are both carbon, which will ensure a smooth and comfortable ride." [end quote]

ME: Okay, so if only the seatpost and fork are carbon, then "composite" must mean something else. I assume it means some sort of aluminum alloy . . . . but why don't they say so? Or if it's something else, what IS it?
 
It's all carbon composite. Saying "composite mix" is redundant rather like a "new innovation"

"composite" is just a short form in this case.

I guess the "writer" didn't want to keep saying "carbon composite" for everything.
 
great question. in giant's hierachy, "composite" or "comp" for short usually refers to the mide-level carbon framesets, with "advanced" and then "advanced sl" being the higher levels. the frameset is some sort of carbon composite, not aliuminum. they use the "slr" designation or none at all for the aluminum framesets.

even better though is the description of the composite 3:

"A Composite-grade composite frame forms the heart of this aero-sculpted beauty. Laid-up by hand, every Avail Composite adds road-smoothing comfort to aggressive racing performance.":p

derp in advertising, methinks.
 
Of course "composite" does not always imply "carbon composite". Sometimes it's more mysterious, or perhaps the marketing people just didn't want to say "plastic".
 
In my opinion it is NOT carbon, it's a glass type of material. What? Fiberglass bikes? Sort of, yes. Certainly not a typical carbon fiber layup, certainly different materials used in my opinion.
 
In my opinion it is NOT carbon, it's a glass type of material. What? Fiberglass bikes? Sort of, yes. Certainly not a typical carbon fiber layup, certainly different materials used in my opinion.
Wrong. Giant has 3 levels - all carbon composite: Composite technology | Technology - Giant Bicycles | Canada

ADVANCED SL COMPOSITE TECHNOLOGY
Giant's Professional-grade raw cabon material is woven in our own composite factory to creat the most cutting-edge frames available today. These frames feature the most advanced engineering and construction methods:

MATERIALS: Professional-grade grade raw carbon with the highest stiffness-to-weight ratio available today.

RESIN: Professional-grade formula with Carbon Nanotube Technology (CNT), a microscopic polymer added to Giant's custom blended resin*. Like miniature buttresses, CNT strengthens the layers of composite. Frames featuring CNT are 14 percent more impact-resistant than those without it.

FUSION PROCESS: This complex process involves hand weaving the toptube and seattube together, then re-molding the area under heat and high pressure to unify the junction, resulting in a lighter, stronger frame than those with traditional molding.

CONTINUOUS FIBER TECHNOLOGY: This manufacturing process allows Giant to construct the front triangle of Advanced SL bicycles* with larger, and therefore fewer, sections of composite material. With fewer pieces and junctions, the frames are up to 100 grams lighter and significantly stronger.

*Found on select 2014 framesets

ADVANCED COMPOSITE TECHNOLOGY
Giant's High Performance-grade raw carbon fiber is used to produce custom composite material in our own composite factory. Extremely lightweight, stiff and compliant, these handcrafted frames feature the following materials and processes:

MATERIALS: High Performance-grade raw carbon material features an excellent stiffness-to-weight ratio.

RESIN: High Performance formula provides excellent void minimization (bubbles) while maintaining outstanding strength. And vibration absorbing particles are added to help disperse road shock.

MODIFIED MONOCOQUE CONSTRUCTION: The front triangle (downtube, headtube, toptube, seattube) is assembled and molded as one continuous piece. This front half is then joined to the rear chainstays and seatstays in a secondary process. This process eliminates the outermost woven composite sheet to reduce weight without affecting ride quality, strength or stiffness.GIANT COMPOSITE TECHNOLOGY
Performance-grade raw carbon fiber is used to create the material for these lightweight, stiff and compliant framesets. Blending performance and value, this technology features the following materials and construction processes:

MATERIALS: Performance-grade raw carbon features best-in-class stiffness-to-weight ratios.

RESIN: Performance formula provides void minimization (bubbles) while maintaining optimal strength.

MODIFIED MONOCOQUE CONSTRUCTION: The front triangle (downtube, headtube, toptube, seattube) is assembled and molded as one continuous piece. This front half is then joined to the rear chainstays and seatstays in a secondary process. Modified Monocoque Construction eliminates the outermost woven composite sheet to reduce weight without affecting ride quality, strength or stiffness.

GIANT COMPOSITE TECHNOLOGY
Performance-grade raw carbon fiber is used to create the material for these lightweight, stiff and compliant framesets. Blending performance and value, this technology features the following materials and construction processes:

MATERIALS: Performance-grade raw carbon features best-in-class stiffness-to-weight ratios.

RESIN: Performance formula provides void minimization (bubbles) while maintaining optimal strength.

MODIFIED MONOCOQUE CONSTRUCTION: The front triangle (downtube, headtube, toptube, seattube) is assembled and molded as one continuous piece. This front half is then joined to the rear chainstays and seatstays in a secondary process. Modified Monocoque Construction eliminates the outermost woven composite sheet to reduce weight without affecting ride quality, strength or stiffness.
 
Carbon is like a bee hive or a medical cast, layer upon layer wrapped on top of each other. It's a cloth soaked in a hardening liquid which dries and forms a shell (I believe there is also some additional heating and compression that is applied in the manufacturing process). There can be variations in the density of that cloth (like the thread count of bed sheets), how it is wrapped, or what chemicals are used in the hardening process, etc. This mix of materials and methods is what they are calling a composite. Carbon-fiber, hemp-fiber, or fiber-glass are all forms of composites. It's safe to assume that in the cycling world it is in reference to carbon-fiber unless otherwise stated... bamboo bikes, for example, use a hemp-fiber composite along with epoxy in order to fasten the individual "tubes" together. That's the simple answer, it's more complex than that.

In other words, just marketing bs. But, you probably figured that out by now.

If there is metal there, it will say alloy (at the least) or it will be more specific than that.
 
Composite really only means multiple different materials are being used to produce one part. The materials list does not necessarily need to include carbon. For example: a hockey stick with a wood core wrapped in fiberglass mat can be considered composite. you can specify the materials used in the composite like "carbon composite" or "wood composite" etc. Obviously, Giant is talking about carbon composite.
 
Composite really only means multiple different materials are being used to produce one part. The materials list does not necessarily need to include carbon. For example: a hockey stick with a wood core wrapped in fiberglass mat can be considered composite. you can specify the materials used in the composite like "carbon composite" or "wood composite" etc. Obviously, Giant is talking about carbon composite.
Quoted in full because this is the one correct answer.

In the case of carbon composite ("carbon fiber") the carbon fibers provide the strength. However they are only strong in tension. The epoxy matrix holds them in place. There are many layers, each with the fibers oriented in a specific way to provide strength in that direction. The outer layer is often a protective/cosmetic layer, with an epoxy clear or gel coat on top.

Fiberglass composite is made the same way, using glass fibers rather than carbon fibers.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Hmm. Go back to the text of Giant's ad in the original post. Note that the word "carbon" is used ONLY to describe the front forks and seat tube, as one would do when describing a top-tier alum bike. The word "carbon" is NOT used - even once - to describe the frame. Only the word "composite" is used.

Because most of you guys say so, I'll assume they MEANT "carbon composite." But you'll admit it's an odd disconnect. DB
 
It's marketing copy. Not a technical description.
The people writing the ad copy write what "looks good" to them. Maybe they needed a longer word to make the text balance visually. Or they thought "composite" sounds more high tech.
 
I think that Giant's usage is described quite well in the quote and link I posted.
 
In my opinion it is NOT carbon, it's a glass type of material. What? Fiberglass bikes? Sort of, yes. Certainly not a typical carbon fiber layup, certainly different materials used in my opinion.
In your opinion? You don't get to have an opinion, because the fact that these components are all carbon fiber composite is clear fact.
 
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