Wheel balancing weights?

Fredrico · Sep 1, 2016

Had a friend from car culture who wrapped small pieces of solder around the nipple opposite the valve on his wheels. He could spin them in his hands and they'd roll for a long time without vibrating up and down. He claimed they were more comfortable when riding and his lugged steel Tommassini handled better.

Anybody tried 'em?

Silca SpeedBalance magnet offsets valve stem weight | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

Marc · Sep 1, 2016

I call that, "woo".

Fredrico · Sep 1, 2016

Hey look man, they might make a noticeable different on these lightweight wheels. My friend noticed the difference on his heavy 36 spoke aluminum rims.:yesnod:

The latest thing. You don't want to get dropped do you? :nono: Article says wgts. eliminate wheel shudder at high speeds. :idea:

Migen21 · Sep 1, 2016

From the review menu on the right side of the page...

Silca SpeedBalance magnet offsets valve stem weight | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

Marc · Sep 1, 2016

Migen21 said:
From the review menu on the right side of the page...

Silca SpeedBalance magnet offsets valve stem weight | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

Protip: You can use AdBlockPlus to make that useless crap go away

MMsRepBike · Sep 1, 2016

I've been using the Silca ones since they came out. I have nothing bad to say about them. They do what they're supposed to do, they balance the wheel. Does that help at all? I don't see how it can hurt me.

I will say that they won't work for anything under 45mm though. At that point even empty it's too heavy of a weight.

Fredrico · Sep 1, 2016

No problem. Jus add a few more until that wheel spins so smoothly!

cxwrench · Sep 1, 2016

Are some wheels out of balance? Yes, some can be to the degree that they shake the bike up and down violently in a work stand. Is it noticeable when riding?

Nope.

Mike T. · Sep 1, 2016

It's only notable in a car because there is lots of suspension to go up & down. On a bike - nothing. It's a gimmick as old as bike wheels.

Migen21 · Sep 1, 2016

Fred, did you read the thread?

Someone else was telling ME to use adblock to block these reviews. I don't even want to block them (I like to read them). I use adblock, but I don't use it to block the links to reviews on a website whose reason for existing is bicycle stuff reviews..

Conveniently, I did use adblock to block those annoying finger wagging emoticons Fred likes to post.

Fredrico · Sep 1, 2016

Migen21 said:
Fred, did you read the thread?

Someone else was telling ME to use adblock to block these reviews. I don't even want to block them (I like to read them). I use adblock, but I don't use it to block the links to reviews on a website whose reason for existing is bicycle stuff reviews..

Sorry, I should have directed my comments to Marc.

I like to see how these bling go anywhere bikes compare to my go anywhere bikes from the 80s. Nice to know they're back in style. Wheel magnets are trying to make a comeback, too, right Mike?

TmB123 · Sep 2, 2016

I'm sure I read somewhere recently of at least one rim manufacturer building a small counterweight into the rim itself opposite the valve hole, but cannot for the life of me remember where I saw it.

Fredrico · Sep 3, 2016

See, cxwrench and Kerry Irons? Not everybody concedes to your expertise or experience.

JCavilia · Sep 2, 2016

Fredrico said:
Had a friend from car culture who wrapped small pieces of solder around the nipple opposite the valve on his wheels. D

Fredrico said:
They only have to weigh as much as a valve stem, about a gram. My friend had to put a couple on, though. He also had to balance out the seam opposite the vale stem where the rim was welded together.

All right, are you trolling us, fredrico? The seam and the valve stem are 180 degrees apart. If their excess weight is the same, they already balance out. If they're different, you only have to add weight to the lighter one. There is NO logical way in which it would make sense to put weight in both locations.

Note that the original article (which is still hooey) only suggested these are useful for deep carbon rims, which have a longer (therefore heavier) valve stem, and don't have the extra seam weight of an aluminum rim.

Either you or your friend are full of it.

Fredrico · Sep 3, 2016

My friend was playing around with a pair of welded aluminum rims. Right, I mentioned to him the weld opposite the valve. That didn't quite do it, so he fine tuned it with some solder wire. Actually don't remember where exactly he put it. Must have been on whichever side was lighter. He enjoyed working on cars, dealing with technical issues, and was very methodical.

So now we have one person to agree that uber light weight carbon rims may benefit from a balancing weight opposite the valve, huh? Gotcha! :thumbsup:

bobf · Sep 4, 2016

Around 1977 my first 10-speed (Raleigh Super Course) got stolen, and until I got another decent bike I road a Schwinn Super Sport. At that time the SSS came with steel wheels and wheel relfectors. The reflectors were pretty heavy compared to today's all-plastic ones.

I took the reflectors off after about two rides, because I could feel the imbalance of the wheels. It was a front-back surge-and-lag feeling rather than a hop. I could feel it above maybe 18mph. Not surprising, it was strongest when the reflectors on both wheels happened to line up. I never noticed any wheel hop at all.

Fredrico · Sep 5, 2016

Oh crap. I've been using the wrong term. It isn't hop, its a front and back surge, like you say. :thumbsup: The wheels are always rolling along in good contact with the tarmac. I called it "pulsing" above.

duriel · Sep 6, 2016

All ye who enter into conversation here are definitely in an 'altered' universe!

TJay74 · Sep 8, 2016

About the most I worry about wheel balancing is to make sure the speed magnet on the rear wheel is opposite of the valve. Thats it for me....

cxwrench · Sep 8, 2016

But do you really know that doing that results in actually balancing the wheel? It definitely doesn't on all wheels. I totally agree w/ the point of your post, but sometimes wheels aren't out of balance the way you'd think they would be.

Winona Pinarello · Sep 24, 2016

I feel wheels are no compromise items. They should reflect a pretty high percentage of the total cost of the bike. I have HED Ardennes wheels and have never had an out of balance issue.

Jay Strongbow · Sep 25, 2016

Winona Pinarello said:
I feel wheels are no compromise items. They should reflect a pretty high percentage of the total cost of the bike. I have HED Ardennes wheels and have never had an out of balance issue.

No one has ever had an out of balance issue with a bicycle wheel. Well, not when riding it anyway.

threebikes · Sep 24, 2016

I did not put any weight opposite of the valve stem. That is not a good way balance the wheel. I put these strips 120 degrees to the left and right of the valve stem. Spin the wheel and start adding the tape. When you can spin the wheel 3 times and it stops at a different spot all 3 times your good to go. I did this on my Reynolds R32's. The difference between my bike and my friends bike on freshly paved roads was amazing.
Storm SuspenStrips - LL Cote Sports Center

Kerry Irons · Sep 25, 2016

threebikes said:
I did not put any weight opposite of the valve stem. That is not a good way balance the wheel. I put these strips 120 degrees to the left and right of the valve stem. Spin the wheel and start adding the tape. When you can spin the wheel 3 times and it stops at a different spot all 3 times your good to go. I did this on my Reynolds R32's. The difference between my bike and my friends bike on freshly paved roads was amazing.

Are you trying to tell us that you could feel the oscillation due to an unbalanced wheel? Because if that is your argument, fundamental physics is raining on your parade.

jjaguar · Sep 27, 2016

Most likely the reason the rim seam is opposite of the valve stem is so that they are drilling a hole through the rim as far away as possible from a joint, for strength.

FWIW, I balance motorcycle wheels on a static balancer, which is basically a rod on bearings with a couple of centering cones. You give the wheel a light spin and an out-of-balance wheel will always stop with the heavy side down. When the wheel is in balance, it will stop in a different, random position each time. I suppose you could use a similar technique to check the balance of a bicycle wheel, but it's never occurred to me to even try. If it made a real difference, you would see the pro peloton use wheel weights on the bikes they use for mountain descents, at least. Do they? I don't think they do, but I really don't know.

cxwrench · Sep 28, 2016

jjaguar said:
Most likely the reason the rim seam is opposite of the valve stem is so that they are drilling a hole through the rim as far away as possible from a joint, for strength.

FWIW, I balance motorcycle wheels on a static balancer, which is basically a rod on bearings with a couple of centering cones. You give the wheel a light spin and an out-of-balance wheel will always stop with the heavy side down. When the wheel is in balance, it will stop in a different, random position each time. I suppose you could use a similar technique to check the balance of a bicycle wheel, but it's never occurred to me to even try. If it made a real difference, you would see the pro peloton use wheel weights on the bikes they use for mountain descents, at least. Do they? I don't think they do, but I really don't know.

^This This This^

mfdemicco · Sep 29, 2016

My Shimano wheels are balanced. Shimano put a weight opposite the valve stem integrated with the rim. They don't even advertise this as far as I know, but I tested it and the wheel is balanced. Hmmm...

What about balancing low pressure gravel, touring, or mountain bike wheels? Would you feel difference at high speed? Don't know, but I suspect you could, depending on the degree of imbalance. 50 psi for the gravel/touring bike, 25 psi for the mountain bike.

Kerry Irons · Sep 30, 2016

mfdemicco said:
My Shimano wheels are balanced. Shimano put a weight opposite the valve stem integrated with the rim. They don't even advertise this as far as I know, but I tested it and the wheel is balanced. Hmmm...

What about balancing low pressure gravel, touring, or mountain bike wheels? Would you feel difference at high speed? Don't know, but I suspect you could, depending on the degree of imbalance. 50 psi for the gravel/touring bike, 25 psi for the mountain bike.

That's funny, because on every wheel I can remember, the heaviest point is at the seam, not at the valve (with tire installed). That suggests your little "thingie" is something else than a balancing weight. Either that or the Shimano is more interested in creating an image than in balancing wheels.

You will have to repeat your question on low pressures. It's not making sense. Are you
suggesting that wheel balance will change as pressure changes? Are you suggesting that a MTB tire will compress at 25 psi due to rim weight imbalance?

TmB123 · Sep 29, 2016

Do you know what length valve stem they allow to offset?
the other thing, seeing how they already drill through the rim (and remove material in doing so) to accomodate the valve, there is already some missing weight that side of the wheel.

cxwrench · Sep 30, 2016

They're not 'balanced' just because there is a bit of weight somewhere. There just happens to be a weight opposite from a hole. Whether they're actually 'balanced' is something else entirely.
If the weight of the weight(!) is equal to the weight of whatever valve you happen to use minus the weight of the material that used to be the valve hole, then you're balanced.

Mike T. · Sep 30, 2016

You and I know bike wheel balancing is bollocks. For there to be a felt vibration, the force of the oscillation would have to overcome the tire pressure and compress the tire - or lift the bike and rider. A car's suspension is more easily overcome by the oscillation because the amount of unbalance will probably be far greater than a bike tire and the speed greater - plus with a car we're talking (approx) 30psi pressure and <60mph> oscillation speed. Car tire imbalance is rarely felt at slower speeds

The car's tire has much greater relative "width" to a bike tire and if the heavy spot was away from the center line of the car tire, it would oscillate back & forth thus giving the characteristic shimmy that indicates a tire out of balance. That's why car tire balancing machines (I balanced thousands of tires when I was an auto mechanic) tells us where on the rim the weigh goes and whether it's on the outside or inside of the rim - or both sides equally.

onlineflyer · Sep 30, 2016

Guys and gals, please calm down. Furthermore, remember when you patch a tube to also place another patch at 180 degrees to insure the tube is balanced.

Lombard · Sep 30, 2016

Best post yet in this thread! Repped!

Blue CheeseHead · Oct 1, 2016

Has anyone seen a dead horse I can beat?

Lombard · Oct 1, 2016

Spike is still alive.

Surprising that this thread is still alive!

I keep coming back to this very wise quite by our own DCGriz. It is very relevant regarding this wheel balancing topic:

dcgriz said:
With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important.

Migen21 · Oct 5, 2016

Alrighty, which one of you trolled Lennard Zinn?

Technical FAQ: Balancing wheels, mismatched brakes, and more | VeloNews.com

VeloNews said:
Dear Lennard,I recently purchased a deep-dish aero road bike wheel and noticed that its weight is slightly out of balance. Can you tell me how to weight balance a bicycle wheel?
— David

Dear David,
An unbalanced wheel can throw off the smoothness of the bike. You can demonstrate this on a rear wheel by cranking the pedal around as fast as you can in high gear while the bike is in a bike stand. Let go. The entire bike and bike stand will jump up and down due to the imbalance in the spinning rear wheel. This is what’s happening while you’re riding, but unless it is extreme, you don’t usually notice it because you are so heavy relative to the rim weight.

The wheel can be unbalanced due to asymmetries in material density and concentration in the rim, the tire, and the tube. To locate the imbalance, install the wheels on the bike while it is clamped in a bike stand. Install the rear wheel with the chain off so that the freewheel doesn’t slow the rotation of the wheel (you don’t have to remove the chain; just bypass it and leave it to hang below the cogs). Spin the wheel and let it spin down to a stop. Repeat. If it repeatedly stops with the same part of the rim at the bottom, that is the heavy spot, and the light spot is the one that is always on top when it stops. This obviously depends on having smooth hub bearings that are properly adjusted; they should be smooth enough that, once the wheel spins down to a stop, it rotates back the other direction at least once before reversing direction again and coming to a complete stop. If the hub is stopping the wheel abruptly, overhaul or replace the bearings and adjust them, and then try spinning the wheel again.

Aluminum rims have either a splint or a weld where the rim is joined opposite the valve, and this extra-dense area is heavy enough that, even though the valve is the heaviest part of the inner tube, the light spot of the entire wheel is generally at the valve. If the spin-down test indicates that the valve is at the light spot, balancing the wheel is easy; you can thread extra collars onto the (threaded) valve stem, and/or put on a metal valve cap. If that fixes it, you’re done. Check that the imbalance is gone by once again letting the wheel spin down, and if it doesn’t favor any particular spot at which to stop, the wheel is balanced sufficiently well.

If the light spot is not at the valve, then you need to add weight to the rim somewhere else. As I mentioned last week, one solution for balancing a wheel is the Effetto Mariposa Shelter Wheel Kit. The little stickers in the kit weigh one gram each and can be stuck onto the rim wherever the wheel’s light spot is. Snip the sticker down to the center hole to slip it around a spoke where it meets the rim.
― Lennard

onlineflyer · Oct 5, 2016

:mad2::mad2::mad2: That's only because the tire had a tube that was patched and the knucklehead what made the repair didn't place another patch at the exact 180 degree location. Furthermore, when doing this repair, you have to be sure to place the second patch at the exact 180 degree location. A degree or two off and the wheel could bounce soooo much you would think you're on a bucking bronco.

duriel · Oct 5, 2016

Some time ago... they thought the world was... flat! I need to look that up.

Wheel balancing weights?

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