Where do you position your hoods?

k1fan · Jul 23, 2006

I just bought some FSA K-Wing ergo bars and mounted them on my bike. My old bars had the hoods sort of at a 15 degree up angle. I never thought much of it and rode it that way since that's the way my bike came from the dealer.

So I mounted my new K-Wings with the hoods in the same position. But I noticed the flat spots on the bar just before the hoods positioned my hands too far from the hoods. It appears the hoods should be mounted WAY up on the bar to just meet the flat spot for your thumbs to rest on while on the hoods. I thought that it looked goofy to have the hoods up that high. Especially since you can't even reach the brake levers when you are in the drops.

But then I noticed on the Tour de France, all the riders are riding with their hoods WAY up on the bars to where they are almost sticking straight up. Since the K-Wing seems to be designed for this high up position and all the pro riders in the tour have the same high up configuration, is that what I should be doing? If so, how do you reach the brake lever?

I realize a lot of the positioning has to do with personal preference, but since I've never ridden with them that high, I have no idea if it's better that way.

I also noticed that the K-Wing bars (if mounted according to the instructions) slope back and put your wrists in an unnaturally (bent) uncomfortable position. So if I tilt the bar forward and mount my hoods WAY up, my bike will now look ridiculous. The bar ends will be pointed up at about a 20 degree angle and my hoods will be sticking straight up! That's not what I had in mind when I bought these cool looking bars. Call me a slave to fashion, but I don't want to look like a dork even if it works well in that configuration.

What should I do?

b987654 · Jul 23, 2006

i think the point of all this ergo stuff is to get you body to a more neutral position. put em' where it makes your wrists,hands and shoulders comfortable. find a ballance between comfort and cool.

naawillis · Jul 23, 2006

the old rule of thumb is to have the bottom of the lever flush with the tangent line from your drops out forward. imagine holding a ruler against the bottom of the drop. thats the spot to start from. how far the bar is rotated under, the drop of the bar, aethetics and positioning can change all this though. upon further inspection, my sets of older style levers on fully curved bars appear to all be slightly higher than this line (~1cm). my dura ace levers on anatomically bent bars are right on it.

C-40 · Jul 23, 2006

to start with...

Concentrate on getting a handlebar angle that produces a comfortable angle in the drop (anatomic) section of the bar, where you can reach the brakes lever. The ends of the bar might be any where from horizontal to angled 10-15 degrees (tips down). Once this is established, you can worry about the angle of the brake hoods. I've seen FSA bars on a bike at a local shop and didn't notice anything unusual about the setup. The bar ends were pretty much horizontal and the top of the (campy) brake hoods were angled up just a few degrees. You didn't mention Campy or Shimano. There is a lot of difference in the design.

I have noticed some pretty unusual brake hood angles at the tour. Floyd Landis seems to use the same Easton EC-90 bar that I do, but mounts the ergo levers quite a bit higher and rotates the bar upward. Rotating these bars makes for an uncomortable angle in the drop section for me and I couldn't even begin to reach the brake levers if I mounted the ergo levers that high. It also makes it very hard to reach the thumb button from the drops. I adjust my brake hood to be angled up just a few degrees, but only after I have the angle of the drop section adjusted. My EC-90 bars are only angled up a couple of degrees. Horizontal ends would also work just fine.

The old school idea setting the end of the brake lever even with the end of the bars is pretty much worthless these days. The bend of today's bars is totally different than those of 20+ years ago.

k1fan · Jul 23, 2006

C-40 said:
Concentrate on getting a handlebar angle that produces a comfortable angle in the drop (anatomic) section of the bar, where you can reach the brakes lever. The ends of the bar might be any where from horizontal to angled 10-15 degrees (tips down). Once this is established, you can worry about the angle of the brake hoods. I've seen FSA bars on a bike at a local shop and didn't notice anything unusual about the setup. The bar ends were prettymuch norizontal and the top of the (campy) brake hoods were angled up just a few degrees. You didn't mention Campy or Shimano. There is a lot of difference in the design.

I have noticed some pretty unusual brake hood angles at the tour. Floyd Landis seems to use the same Easton EC-90 bar that I do, but mounts the ergo levers quite a bit higher and rotates the bar upward. Rotating these bars makes for an uncomortable angle in the drop section for me and I couldn't even begin to reach the brake levers if I mounted the ergo levers that high. It also makes it very hard to reach the thumb button from the drops. I adjust my brake hood to be angled up just a few degrees, but only after I have the angle of the drop section adjusted. My EC-90 bars are only angles up a couple of degrees. Horizontal ends would also work just fine.

The old school idea setting the end of the brake lever even with the end of the bars is pretty much worthless these days. The bend of today's bars is totally different than those of 20+ years ago.

That's how I have the bars mounted now. Everything "looks" right. It is set according to the instructions where the bar ends are at a 0 to 5 degree down angle from horizontal. I set mine at 2.5 degrees. I then attached my hoods at a slight up angle (around 15 to 20 degrees) right in the middle of the range provided by FSA. Their range is indicated with a slightly rough section of the bar. The rest of the bar is smooth. Everything looks good and normal and I can reach the brake levers just fine while in the drops.

But that doesn't seem to work. The flat portion of the ergo bar just before the hoods is too far away from the hoods. If you place your hands in the flat area where your hands obviously go, you are gripping the bar alone. The hoods are about an inch away from your hands. But if you move the hoods up to the top of the range provided by FSA, they are now perfectly in position with the flat section of bar to grip the hoods and rest your thumb pads on the flat section. But now you can't reach the brake levers.

Another problem with the bars mounted in the "good looking" position is your wrists. They are unnaturally bent back. The main flat section of bar is tilted back about 20 degrees. That makes you crank your wrists back 20 degrees which is not comfortable at all to ride like that. So that means you have to tilt the bar forward 20 degrees which now makes your bar ends point upward to the sky at a 17.5 degree angle. It looks stupid that way.

It just seems the bars weren't designed correctly. You can see what they were trying to accomplish, but they screwed up the execution. So you have to choose between looking odd and not being able to reach the brakes or looking good but being uncomfortable. I shouldn't have to choose between the two. I should be able to look good AND be comfortable and able to reach the brake levers.

C-40 · Jul 23, 2006

you're confused...

I think your main problem is you seem to think that the heel of your hand (behind the thumb) should be on the flat part of the bar when your hands are on the brake hoods. That's not the case. When you're on the brake hoods, these bars don't appear to be different than any other round bar.

As for grasping the flat top section, this design has never made any sense to me. I want to grasp a round bar.

danl1 · Jul 23, 2006

It sounds like your current set-up is about what was designed, but that your expectations are a bit off.

The flat spot above the hoods is meant as an additional position, not as a 'new' hood position. Think of it as a 'back' version of on the hoods, or as a 'on the bends' postion, only with the fingers outside rather than inside. Handy once you get used to it.

As for the tops, it seems like you are expecting to hold them rolled in your fingers, with weight resting on the inside of the first knuckle, like we always did with traditional round bars. But these are different - they're intended to have the meaty palm bits nearer to the wrist resting on the bars, with the tips of the fingers hanging on underneath. In that position, the angle is just what is needed.

As for the hoods, they should extend fairly flat from the bars onto the hood tops, with only a slight ramp upwards. If we were using old-style hoods, it wouldn't look all that odd. The reason the Shimano (I'm making an assumption there) look so goofy is that the mechanism is a big ol' lump on the top, making them look much higher than they (ergonomically) are.

Neither the hoods or the bars look as visually nice as round bend bars with traditional brake-only levers mounted in the traditional manner. But I find them way more comfortable,
which makes them a lot better looking than they otherwise might. Once you get them set up and spend some time on them, I bet you'll love 'em. If not, feel free to send them my way.

k1fan · Jul 23, 2006

danl1 said:
It sounds like your current set-up is about what was designed, but that your expectations are a bit off.

The flat spot above the hoods is meant as an additional position, not as a 'new' hood position. Think of it as a 'back' version of on the hoods, or as a 'on the bends' postion, only with the fingers outside rather than inside. Handy once you get used to it.

As for the tops, it seems like you are expecting to hold them rolled in your fingers, with weight resting on the inside of the first knuckle, like we always did with traditional round bars. But these are different - they're intended to have the meaty palm bits nearer to the wrist resting on the bars, with the tips of the fingers hanging on underneath. In that position, the angle is just what is needed.

As for the hoods, they should extend fairly flat from the bars onto the hood tops, with only a slight ramp upwards. If we were using old-style hoods, it wouldn't look all that odd. The reason the Shimano (I'm making an assumption there) look so goofy is that the mechanism is a big ol' lump on the top, making them look much higher than they (ergonomically) are.

Neither the hoods or the bars look as visually nice as round bend bars with traditional brake-only levers mounted in the traditional manner. But I find them way more comfortable,
which makes them a lot better looking than they otherwise might. Once you get them set up and spend some time on them, I bet you'll love 'em. If not, feel free to send them my way.

I don't believe my expectations are out of whack. And I am using the bars correctly according to your explanation. After being somewhat dissappointed in the K-Wing bars, I began investigating more closely the competing ergo bars. What I found was enlightening.

All of the competiting bars have a truly flat top (level with the ground). What I mean by that is the top is not sloped towards the rider by any amount whatsoever. And in every case, the bar ends are either parallel to the bar tops or they slope downward away from the bar tops. This allows you to rotate the bar to your liking in either direction without the bar ends potentially pointing upwards.

Take a look at the competition and you'll see what I mean. Check out the ITM K-Sword, the Control Tech, the Winwood, and the Specialized S-Works SL. All of them have a flat top with the bar ends appropriately angled. ONLY the FSA does not. I even got to try out my friends ITM bar personally and can vouch that it is flat and VERY comfortable compared to the FSA.

Also, all of the competing bars allow the hoods to be placed right next to the flat section of bar for your thumb pad to rest on. You said that the flat section for the thumb is meant as a new position and not to be used in conjunction with the hoods. That may be true, but just try moving your hoods to be used with the flat section. It is unbelievably comfortable. I find it hard to believe that it was not intended to be mounted like that. Especially when the competition accomodates that mounting configuration. This would also help explain the Tour this year with all the riders having their hoods so high.

JacksonDodge · Jul 23, 2006

I'm going to be honest.

I think you're too worried about how "cool" your bike will look.

k1fan · Jul 24, 2006

JacksonDodge said:
I'm going to be honest.

I think you're too worried about how "cool" your bike will look.

Of course I want my bike to look cool. I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a bike for it to look uncool. I may look like crap but my bike better damn well look cool! I have news for you, I even like my car and my wife to look cool. I like cool things. Since I'm not cool I have to surround myself with cool toys or no one will talk to me!

tobu · Jul 24, 2006

Many pro's hate anatomic bars, much less the "super anatomic" bars like the k-wing. It's hard to design something that will beat a normal shallow drop bar, rotated upwards 0-20 degrees.

JacksonDodge · Jul 24, 2006

k1fan said:
Of course I want my bike to look cool. I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a bike for it to look uncool. I may look like crap but my bike better damn well look cool! I have news for you, I even like my car and my wife to look cool. I like cool things. Since I'm not cool I have to surround myself with cool toys or no one will talk to me!

:mad2:

Sad.

Pierre · Jul 24, 2006

here's a picture of my K-wing setup. I don't pretend that it is THE way to go and I've never read the instructions, but I had the picture in the computer so here's an example. I've done many centuries with this setup. Now, I've not decided yet if I like more the K-wing or the Bontrager Race X Lite handlebars...

Pierre · Jul 24, 2006

By the way, I agree that the angle of the top part is strange on the K-wing. I've angled it a bit forward to compensate. I wouldn't like either when it lies flat like some of the competition, but on the k-wing it's really too much. I like these bars in large part because of the flat part near the hoods. The ITM Sword might be better designed.

k1fan · Jul 24, 2006

Pierre said:
here's a picture of my K-wing setup. I don't pretend that it is THE way to go and I've never read the instructions, but I had the picture in the computer so here's an example. I've done many centuries with this setup. Now, I've not decided yet if I like more the K-wing or the Bontrager Race X Lite handlebars...

I notice your hoods are high up. Did you mount them past the roughened portion of your bars? Or are they mounted at the extreme high limit of the roughened portion?

I also notice that your bar ends seem to be pointing slightly downward. Have you found the angled flat tops to be uncomfortable to your wrists? A wrench at my LBS told me he always gets complaints about the top slope on the FSA K-Wings. He often takes care of the K-Wing sloping problem by building up the low side of the slanted portion of the tops with extra padding and then tapes the whole bar. That levels it out. Did you do anything like that? I ask because I noticed you taped the whole bar.

Thanks for the photo.

k1fan · Jul 24, 2006

Pierre said:
By the way, I agree that the angle of the top part is strange on the K-wing. I've angled it a bit forward to compensate. I wouldn't like either when it lies flat like some of the competition, but on the k-wing it's really too much. I like these bars in large part because of the flat part near the hoods. The ITM Sword might be better designed.

Doh! Sorry Pierre. I just noticed you posted the last two posts. I replied to your photo post before getting to your second post. Your second post answered my question about rotating your bar for your wrists. I will try to rotate the bars in small increments and do rides to see if I can find my sweet spot before taping or dumping the bars altogether.

Did you mount your hoods right next to the flat part so you can rest your thumb pad while on the hoods? Or do you use the hoods independent of the thumb-rest flat spot because they are too far apart?

orange_julius · Jul 24, 2006

Subtle but makes a difference.

In addition to C-40's comments, note that rotating your handlebar angle and the position of the levers will effect the position of your hands, effectively changing your reach/drop. I used to be a fan of horizontal top for my non-ergo ITM handlebar, but not the bottom part is what i set to be horizontal. After adjusting the Campag levers, the horizontal distance to my levers is reduced, but it adds a little more vertical drop.

The Cyfac fitting literature actually tells you to watch for this, that's where I got my idea from.

Dereck · Jul 24, 2006

Try this

Put the bars on your bike, add the brake levers.You don't have to tape up anything - brakes and shifters work fine with the cables hanging out there.

Now ride around a handy neighbourhood road, in your riding gear and shoes.

Never mind the neighbours - they sit on their buns and get fat, you sit on yours and get fit.

Move the bars and brake levers around until you're happy with their positioning.

Now tape up the cables temporarily - a few pieces of electrician's tape will do, to stop them flapping around - and go out for a few miles . Hit a couple of climbs, try out all your hand position options. Don't make any changes until you are satisfied that you need them made.

Eventually, you'll be happy and can strap up your cables, then tape up the bars.

Alternatives? Hang around road races and position your bars/levers to match the most stylish riders in the pack, or submit your positioning to 'Style Man' in Bicycling magazine for approval

Advice cost is the usual internet rate

from someone who rides Deda 215 Italian shallow bars, 'cos they're just like the ones I used to ride back in 1973! (But K-Wings are sexy

)

Regards

Dereck

danl1 · Jul 25, 2006

k1fan said:
All of the competiting bars have a truly flat top (level with the ground). What I mean by that is the top is not sloped towards the rider by any amount whatsoever. And in every case, the bar ends are either parallel to the bar tops or they slope downward away from the bar tops. This allows you to rotate the bar to your liking in either direction without the bar ends potentially pointing upwards.

Take a look at the competition and you'll see what I mean. Check out the ITM K-Sword, the Control Tech, the Winwood, and the Specialized S-Works SL. All of them have a flat top with the bar ends appropriately angled. ONLY the FSA does not. I even got to try out my friends ITM bar personally and can vouch that it is flat and VERY comfortable compared to the FSA.

Also, all of the competing bars allow the hoods to be placed right next to the flat section of bar for your thumb pad to rest on. You said that the flat section for the thumb is meant as a new position and not to be used in conjunction with the hoods. That may be true, but just try moving your hoods to be used with the flat section. It is unbelievably comfortable. I find it hard to believe that it was not intended to be mounted like that. Especially when the competition accomodates that mounting configuration. This would also help explain the Tour this year with all the riders having their hoods so high.

I disagree re: the competition. With the exception of the ITM, they all have some measure of back-slope to the tops. (I haven't personally seen the S-works model). the FSA's aren't extreme in comparison. It probably depends on the rest of your fit. I ride fairly stretched out, so the bit of slope is very comfortable. If you ride with a tighter cockpit (as many racers do) a flatter top might be more to your liking. That bit is the whole reason to have these bars, so if that's not to your liking, maybe one of the others is better suited to you.

I think I might have misunderstood the bit of the bars you were talking about regarding the hoods, or I miscommunicated what I was talking about. I was thinking of the detent a bit farther back (on the inside front of the bend), that seems to fit my thumbs nicely. Installed as FSA intends, the flat part of the bars behind the hoods should indeed flow smoothly onto the tops of the hoods, as you've suggested. And that flat section (for me, at least) should slope forward slightly. That puts the bottoms of the hooks near to level, or slightly sloped to the rear. In my experience, that puts the bottoms of the levers aligned near the bottom of the hooks. I agree that the hoods appear to be high in this setup, but that's the way both bars and hoods are designed nowaways. One of the reasons we have so much apparent bar-saddle drop recently is because we've taken some out of how the hoods do mount higher than they used to.

Sorry about the "expectations" thing - not meant as it apparently came out. All I meant was that it seems you expect to see the more traditional hood mounting spot, down the curve a ways, as nature intended. All I'm saying is that neither the hoods nor the bars are designed to mount down there anymore. And using Pierre's photo as a reference, while they appear to be mounted up high, the portion of the hoods where your hands rest is level, not pointed upward to any significant degree. It's that big ugly mech knob that really makes them appear pointed up, but that's the new 'cool'. I still haven't become completely accustomed to the new style, but I'm all about what works.

Pierre · Jul 25, 2006

the 'rotate a little bit and ride' is what I did. The hoods on that setup are more or less aligned with the 'flat portion'. Would be even nicer with campy shifters as the top of the campy shifters are flatter. Also, I've taped the whole bar, even double-taped it. I don't care about the 'cool factor' of this handlebar, and I like good padding for loooong rides. Done several thousand miles with this setup now...

Where do you position your hoods?

k1fan

b987654

naawillis

C-40

k1fan

C-40

danl1

k1fan

JacksonDodge

k1fan

tobu

JacksonDodge

Pierre

Pierre

k1fan

k1fan

orange_julius

Dereck

danl1

Pierre

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