[Winter Rider]

Considering a Reynolds 853 or 953 frame. Looking for a source of
Taiwan built frames. IE: a light steel bike for a fitness rider that'll take 25 tires.

I'd consider a lightly used frame 59-63 cm same materials.

Thanks.

 

[Cinelli 82220]

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[Winter Rider]

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Rikulau. Ok. Got the reply via the email notice.

I've checked that site out.. some interesting things. Websites are one thing.. facts another.

Anyone with real world experience with their frames?

EDIT addition: checked the fleabay.. their cromo fork at 890 something grams.. my $43 steel is high 700's. New Dimension... allot more fork at 1/3 cost. First sniff appears to be the naive buyer as the base.

Nothing it seems over 56ish CM.. built for the Asian types.

 

[chomeo]

a buddy of mine have one of their cross bike. it works for him. not sure about frame quality as it's fairly new. I've looked at their weld closely and it's ordinary. i'm used to seeing beautiful welds from Seven, Moots, and Merlin and it's sort of unfair comparison given Rikulau's pricing.

good luck!

 

[Winter Rider]

Thanks chomeo.

One Ca distributor of theirs has one on markdown... mite smallish for me. Still wants near 9 for it... they get over 1400 per an order in my size. Their markup smells large.......

I wonder what the cost of the tubes are themselves? 250 ish?

 

[chomeo]

I should clarify that I compared their welds on titanium cross to those of the US builders. I'm not sure about their welds for steel bikes; but, I would expect similar in quality.

I'm not sure how much Reynolds 953 cost. But columbus sst cost about $500-600. And that does account for misc hardware like hangers and such. Bike builders probably can get their tubeset cheaper directly from the distributor due to volume. But, yea i would think their cost is in the $300ish range.

don't forget to account for their labor hours for building the frameset. this is where it's tricky as how would one put a price tag for quality welds? it's almost like "art."

 

[Winter Rider]

don't forget to account for their labor hours for building the frameset. this is where it's tricky as how would one put a price tag for quality welds? it's almost like "art."

Wonder what that welder over the pond gets per frame.. Then a ship container load of tubes has to bring costs well down again.

Definitely high end welding is an art but I suspect weld integrity fine vs other considerations ... like say titanium welds. 'Weld beauty' for me isn't an issue so long as they stay put.

I couldn't find a manufacturer direct on those nets sites listing Taiwan co's... possibly someone else has. Yet that a risky route IMO.

 

[chomeo]

I don't know how much welders in Taiwan make - i assume where these frames are made. But in general, i would guess that Taiwanese labor is 1/4 or 1/3 that of the US based on comparable salary that my peers get in our industry which is high tech.

'Weld beauty' is subjective. Yet, ugly weld is an eyesore.

 

[redstarcap]

I can imagine the margin for LBS at least 40%. It is a lot, but if you factor in the 'risk', it's really not that big
What I mean by 'risk' is, if I own a bike shop, I will have to buy bikes in certain quantity, and usually it is a package purchase, like the whole line of bikes the manufacturer/distributor carry. Not to mention various sizes as well
To make thing simple, let just say every year I have to buy 100 bikes in various models and sizes
On a good month, maybe I can sell about 10 bikes, but on average maybe just 8/month
So, it took about a year to sell all of the bike I purchase, but there's still some other risk
If a customer wants to buy a bike in certain model/color/size but I have no stock, I have to source it from another shop or smaller distributor which means the margin is not that good
So in the end, I will have some old model bikes I got to move, that's why I'll give big chunk of discount for some liquidity to buy next year's bike

It's 40% profit in the end if you factor in every month's overhead etc, might turn out just about 20%

Well, I don't own a bike shop. I've thought about it, but for me the 'risk' is not my game

 

[Winter Rider]

Came across a frame stiffness test which included the '99 Schwinn Circuit, which is welded 853 tubing. The authors used two tests to rate frame flex while noting this a limited view of frame comparison.

http://www.cervelo.hu/reviews/Flexing Their Muscles.pdf

Anyone read a similar report analyzing a range of steel frames per stiffness & comparing ride quality (admittedly very subjective)?

 

[Winter Rider]

light blue-Frames - Light Blue Kings. - Product Information

Another source of 853's. Would like to find out who in Taiwan is making these.

 

[sante pollastri]

a buddy of mine have one of their cross bike. it works for him. not sure about frame quality as it's fairly new. I've looked at their weld closely and it's ordinary. i'm used to seeing beautiful welds from Seven, Moots, and Merlin and it's sort of unfair comparison given Rikulau's pricing.

good luck!

welds are not the frame.
blacksmith aren't framebuilders...

 

[Scooper]

welds are not the frame.
blacksmith aren't framebuilders...

A good framebuilder must possess many different skills, and framebuilders making welded frames should be competent welders, no?

This is the top tube/head tube joint on a Ted Wojcik TIG welded 853 steel frame.

BB shell, same frame.

 

[laffeaux]

I can imagine the margin for LBS at least 40%.

It's been a few years since I worked in a shop but it was about 35% at that time. However, that 35% had to pay a mechanic to assemble the bike (some shops spend more time doing this to get a better product), a salesman to man the shop, rent on a storefront to display the bike, utilities on the building, and if the shop was lucky a little bit of profit. Most bikes that are sold are not expensive so there's not a lot of money made on a typical sale. In general selling accessories (clothes) and making repairs were the better profit makers.

 

[jnbrown]

If you want an 853 for cheap look for a used LeMond.
That is what I did, could have bought one for $225, but when it came down to it I decided why do I need another bike?

 

[sante pollastri]

A good framebuilder must possess many different skills, and framebuilders making welded frames should be competent welders, no?

This is the top tube/head tube joint on a Ted Wojcik TIG welded 853 steel frame.

BB shell, same frame.

I'm sorry,but I prefer to see the whole bike,welds alone don't say nothing.

 

[Winter Rider]

If you want an 853 for cheap look for a used LeMond.
That is what I did, could have bought one for $225, but when it came down to it I decided why do I need another bike?

I'd like to compare the ride quality of the lugged (Schwinn Premis) steel I ride today vs the 853's. Doubt it's much different (?).. just something to add interest to the mileage.

I rode a 63cm '90 Cannondale rd bike for a summer 1500+ mi... 115 psi 25's inflated to 100... carbon flat bar.. seat a little more padded with the stock steel fork. Some of my rides 50 mi... that bike road super albeit stiff enough to give me a slight lower back ache. My steel is softer and allows me to do 100 mi in two days.

 

[Dajianshan]

Rikulau makes excellent frames. Actually, they do all the CAD work and the actual fabrication is done at the ORA factory in Chingshui township. They have over 30 years of experience and I have personally met several members of both the Rikulau and ORA staff.

Taiwan makes some excellent steel frames.

Unfortunately, Maxway is now sourcing their steel frames from China and finishing them in Taiwan. These would be the QBP brands.

 

[Winter Rider]

Bought.. 60cm '98 Peloton 853 Reynolds.. nice shape. TT is around 1/2" longer than '88 63 cm Schwinn Premis.

Now for a steel fork. Flea/feebay isn't showing anything of interest.

 

[framesti]

reynolds 853/953 frame

How will you decide to get 953 or 853? They are different. What about aluminum?