[madduck]

Am I hosed?
I have a Rock Lobster w/ rim brakes and would like to go wireless. The current setup is 1st gen Di2.
I dont think SRAM is an option, it looks like they only product levers that are only set up for disc brakes.
I cannot tell what the heck Shimano has going on. One of their product descriptors said something to the effect, 'mostly wireless'. If I can find that posting I'll include the link.

With my 1st gen we put the battery in the down tube. I'm trying to figure out if Shimano's battery tech has changed, which I'm sure it has. Getting back on the road bike more, also plan to sign up for the Iron Horse in Durango next year, so I've got some justification to spend more $$$ on bike stuff I don't need...but definitely want.

I have wireless SRAM on my mtb and love the cleanliness.
So, is the 105 Di2-12 spd wireless...or not?
What about the Ultegra?

TIA and Cheers,
Madduck

 

[Catmandoo]

Shimano wireless shifters are 12 spd. and disc. 105 shifters can be wireless - SHIMANO 105 Di2 Hydraulic Disc Brake DUAL CONTROL LEVER (2x12-speed) | SHIMANO BIKE-US

 

[madduck]

Thank you. So wireless with rim brakes is pretty much out.
Man, getting old is tough. I want a website with a product pic and specs. Websites have so much, IMO, useless pics and motion it's time consuming to get to the nitty-gritty.
Here are some Ultegra levers for rim brakes, but Ultegra is not wireless if I understand this.

SHIMANO ULTEGRA Di2 Rim Brake DUAL CONTROL LEVER 2x12-speed | SHIMANO BIKE-US

bike.shimano.com

 

[Catmandoo]

The Shimano site has always sucked to find info.

 

[tlg]

I don't get what's so confusing. It's right there in the product specs.

SHIMANO ULTEGRA Di2 Rim Brake DUAL CONTROL LEVER 2x12-speed | SHIMANO BIKE-US

bike.shimano.com

SHIMANO ULTEGRA Di2 Hydraulic Disc Brake DUAL CONTROL LEVER 2x12-speed | SHIMANO BIKE-US

Shimano's new ULTEGRA ST-R8170 brake levers bring enhanced modulation and control to every ride by employing Shimano's proven SERVO WAVE technology. The all-new Di2 platform, used on both DURA-ACE and ULTEGRA, untethers the shifters while delivering our fastest, most reliable wireless shifting...

bike.shimano.com

DURA-ACE Di2 Hydraulic Disc Brake DUAL CONTROL LEVER 2x12-speed | SHIMANO BIKE-US

Now featuring SERVO WAVE ACTION brake technology, the new DURA-ACE ST-R9270 brake lever delivers modulation and control like never before. Wireless shifting keeps your bike looking clean while offering our fastest, most precise gear changes available. All of this resides in a DUAL CONTROL LEVER...

bike.shimano.com

 

[madduck]

I found a tech who knew the system.
With my SRAM there are no wires, period. With Shimano, how is it wired and wireless?
SRAM has the battery on the rear derailleur. The Shimano the battery is in the seat tube, which I knew, but did not understand how they powered the derailleurs. I guess you could say the battery is the brain and power. The shifters talk to the brain wireless, but it is connected to the derailleurs via wires. Ergo, wireless and wired.

With the crappy pics, or really lack of, on the Shimano website I did not understand how or why the system was both. Now I do.

 

[Catmandoo]

I don't get what's so confusing. It's right there in the product specs.

SHIMANO ULTEGRA Di2 Rim Brake DUAL CONTROL LEVER 2x12-speed | SHIMANO BIKE-US

bike.shimano.com

View attachment 492815

SHIMANO ULTEGRA Di2 Hydraulic Disc Brake DUAL CONTROL LEVER 2x12-speed | SHIMANO BIKE-US

Shimano's new ULTEGRA ST-R8170 brake levers bring enhanced modulation and control to every ride by employing Shimano's proven SERVO WAVE technology. The all-new Di2 platform, used on both DURA-ACE and ULTEGRA, untethers the shifters while delivering our fastest, most reliable wireless shifting...

bike.shimano.com

View attachment 492819

View attachment 492817

DURA-ACE Di2 Hydraulic Disc Brake DUAL CONTROL LEVER 2x12-speed | SHIMANO BIKE-US

Now featuring SERVO WAVE ACTION brake technology, the new DURA-ACE ST-R9270 brake lever delivers modulation and control like never before. Wireless shifting keeps your bike looking clean while offering our fastest, most precise gear changes available. All of this resides in a DUAL CONTROL LEVER...

bike.shimano.com

View attachment 492818

The Ultegra rim brake shifters are wired. The OP wants wireless

 

[tlg]

The Ultegra rim brake shifters are wired. The OP wants wireless

I know. It says right there on Shimano's site the Ultegra rim shifters are wired.
So I don't get the confusion blaming the website specs. The website is fine.

 

[Catmandoo]

They've changed the site over time, has a lot more "sales" info., and just general hype about how great all their gear is, you have to spend more time and effort to dig thru to find stuff, is all. Not a fan.

 

[madduck]

I know. It says right there on Shimano's site the Ultegra rim shifters are wired.
So I don't get the confusion blaming the website specs. The website is fine.

Are they wired from the levers and/or from the battery?

 

[tlg]

Are they wired from the levers and/or from the battery?

You're looking at the page for the rim shifters. It says they are wired. There is no way to connect the shifters but with wires.
I don't understand what else that could mean. If you want wireless, clearly these are not an option.

 

[madduck]

You're looking at the page for the rim shifters. It says they are wired. There is no way to connect the shifters but with wires.
I don't understand what else that could mean. If you want wireless, clearly these are not an option.

I saw, first hand, in person, with my own 2 eyes yesterday at a bike shop in AZ, a wireless shifting Ultegra group. You are incorrect. Thank you for proving my point. Shimano's site is poor.

You say there is no way to connect the shifters but with wires yet you post a pic that says wireless. Whether the lever is actuating a hydro vs. mech brake is moot. If levers can actuate a hydro brake and be wireless why would they not be able to actuate a mech brake? Or perhaps I am missing your point.

The trickery of Shimano's poor webpage is in the language they are using. It is not incorrect, they say wireless shifting. There are no wires coming from the levers. There ARE wires coming from the brain/battery in the seat tube. When I see wireless I envision zero wires, ala SRAM. When SRAM said wireless shifting they meant zero wires.

My confusion has been reading articles about the current gen Di2 having wires yet claiming to be wireless shifting. While not 100% wrong using those words I question whether it's 100% correct. The fact that we are having this in depth of a discussion about how their group is configured, IMO, proves my point that the site is poor. But this is how we all learn.

 

[tlg]

I saw, first hand, in person, with my own 2 eyes yesterday at a bike shop in AZ, a wireless shifting Ultegra group. You are incorrect. Thank you for proving my point. Shimano's site is poor.

OMG. I never said there are no wireless shifters. I have the Dura Ace wireless group.
Those shifters you saw at the bike shop were NOT the Ultegra RIM brake Shifters.

You say there is no way to connect the shifters but with wires yet you post a pic that says wireless.

Correct. There are DIFFERENT models.
The Ultegra RIM brake model, the link you provided are WIRED. There is no way to connect those wirelessly

The OTHER two models, the Dura Ace Hydro and Ultegra Hydro can be WIRELESS or WIRED.

It's all spelled out right there in the web page of each shifter how they connect.

Whether the lever is actuating a hydro vs. mech brake is moot. If levers can actuate a hydro brake and be wireless why would they not be able to actuate a mech brake? Or perhaps I am missing your point.

It is absolutely not moot. It has nothing to do with it.
The Rim brake Ultegra model does NOT have wireless capability.
There are no Rim brake shifters with wireless capability.

 

[tlg]

Spelled out here, as reflected on the product pages. The Rim brake Ultegra ST-R8150 is not listed as wireless capable.
Only the Dura Ace ST-R9270 , Ultegra ST-R8170 , & 105 ST-R7170 Hydro shifters are capable of connecting wirelessly

si.shimano.com

si.shimano.com

The ST-R9270, ST-R8170, and ST-R7170 are capable of connecting wirelessly to the derailleurs. Other models of dual control levers or satellite shifters must use wired connections.

 

[madduck]

OK, on some stuff we're talking past each other, which happens online.
i.e.:

The ST-R9270, ST-R8170, and ST-R7170 are capable of connecting wirelessly to the derailleurs.

To me, wirelessly to derailleurs means no wires. Period. Until I saw the system in person I did not understand the verbiage.
I see what you meant when you referenced the Ultegra and 'wireless'.
Big pic, I'm keeping what I have. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I think Shimano's site is too busy and poorly laid out. But that is one person's opinion.
Thanks for the banter. Last word to you.

 

[tlg]

To me, wirelessly to derailleurs means no wires. Period.

It doesn't matter if you think it means wireless or semi wireless. That's only for the Disc versions.

You keep referring to the Disc Shifters which I don't get. You're upset about the verbiage of the Disc Shifters.
But you're not looking for Disc Shifters.
Even if they were 'fully wireless' as you wish, it's completely irrelevant since you can't use Disc Shifters.

You were looking for the Ultegra Rim version.
Which as they state are wired.


It's not just Shimano's site you don't understand. You said it doesn't look like SRAM has them either. Yes they do. SRAM has Rim etap in Red and Force

Force eTap AXS Shift-Brake Lever - EB-FRC-D1 - SRAM

Force eTap AXS Shift-Brake Lever, EB-FRC-D1, SRAM. Combining the tradition of mechanical rim brakes and the precision and efficiency of modern electronic shifting, SRAM Force eTap AXS shift-brake lever...

www.sram.com

 

[Lombard]

OK, on some stuff we're talking past each other, which happens online.
i.e.:

To me, wirelessly to derailleurs means no wires. Period. Until I saw the system in person I did not understand the verbiage.
I see what you meant when you referenced the Ultegra and 'wireless'.
Big pic, I'm keeping what I have. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I think Shimano's site is too busy and poorly laid out. But that is one person's opinion.
Thanks for the banter. Last word to you.

To be clear, Shimano doesn't have any fully wireless Di2 systems. For their latest generation Di2 groupset (12-speed) there are wired (rim brake) and semi-wireless (disc brake) meaning the derailleurs are still hard wired to a main battery in the seat tube, but the shifters communicate wirelessly to the derailleurs (each shifter has a coin battery).

 

[craiger_ny]

Whether disc or rim is not relevant to the fact that Shimano's web site is not sufficiently descriptive to a lay person in most cases and in many cases it remains lacking also to a person with moderate knowledge of bicycle components/ systems. This results in their web site sucking for most people. Once something sucks to most people it is considered to by and large suck on the whole, hence the perspective that Shimano's web site does in fact suck. I have grown used to it. I get by with it. In addition to that it sucks.

It can be useable for some and suck for the rest which it is and does.