[1Butcher]

I have a 2009 SR groupset sitting in the drawer. It was removed because I went to SR EPS. I changed due to shifting issues. Some days were better than others.

Campagnolo did improve some items to make it less finicky in the later versions, so there was some issues. I imagine that not everyone had a perfectly run cables [like you] so that is why the updates.

I'm glad things worked well for you, but that was not the case for everyone. One thing for certain, I did not have 2mm of BB play and I would not blame the Campagnolo for the idiots that represent them. Considering how small they are, they do a hell of a job.

 

[tka]

Sorry, but that's BS, pure and simple. Like I said, I understand your frustration, but you're dead wrong extrapolating your personal experience into a generalization about Campagnolo gear. I am riding a 2009 Campagnolo Super Record, with no issues of any kind for six years now.

This is my experience as well, Campagnolo gear just works. And even if it did break like the infamous 9-sp Ergo spring carrier(the right G spring carrier would crack and the shifter didn't work quite right, but ironically most people wouldn't notice any issue, just a slight bit of sloppiness that felt like worn cables/housings. It would show up immediately if you were using an ErgoBrain since the gear indicator wouldn't match the actual gear.) there were spare parts to fix it. Sadly those days are over. Now you need to buy a new component to fix a rare issue.

My experience with Shimano is it works great right until it doesn't, then you replace all of it since Shimano updated enough that anything new is incompatible with anything more than a couple years old. Happened on my XTR groups, happened on my Ultegra groups, happened on my DA groups. Happened enough that I no longer have any Shimano on any of my bikes.

 

[goodboyr]

Oh boy.....here we go....shimano vs campy..... Let's not take this thread ot.

 

[Rokh Hard]

Oh boy.....here we go....shimano vs campy..... Let's not take this thread ot.

your correct. it aint. it isnt.

what this is, is an accounting and my experience with the 2015 super record front derailleur, and the authorized campagnolo proshop mechanic that i was directed to by the campagnolo north american rep. :thumbsup:

 

[orange_julius]

I guess I'm lucky that I decided to rely on myself and never on a shop to take care of my gear. The first time I bought a really nice frame and wanted to put Campagnolo on it, a friend who used to own a bike shop walked me through the steps of installing it. So far, I have never gone to a shop for any groupset issues.

For fun, I've done about 12 full Campagnolo installs on bikes for myself and for friends, from Veloce to Record, and so far I have had 0 problems. I'm not nearly a mechanical genius. I just read the instructions, think through the steps, and then get it done. No issues or mistakes, other than a few cables I cut too short the first 2 times I did a full bike (oopsie). It's really not hard and i encourage everybody to learn how to install a groupset. The skill you learn may save your *** on the road someday.

 

[goodboyr]

+100000

 

[Pirx]

I just read the instructions, think through the steps, and then get it done.

Yes, this is the key, and it is really all it takes to get your Campy setup working perfectly. So simple, yet so hard to do for some shops, apparently.

 

[goodboyr]

It is actually amazing that shops are so uninformed. This info is readily obtainable. It's a lot of nerve for an lbs to sell high end equipment, yet work on it like they are working in a Walmart.

 

[Rokh Hard]

what is interesting is that a campy proshop working in conjunction with campy usa and the chaps in italy (and all the little ones in between) could not (or would not) sort this out. by all the accounts i read here that most any non pro mechanic are able to install (previous) versions of this group set as it appears simple enough.

that leaves the following to be said about my experience with the 2015 campagnolo super record gear set -

1) that my 2015 campagnolo super record gear set does not work
2) that my 2015 campagnolo super record gear set will not work
3) they cannot fix my 2015 campagnolo super record gear set
4) they will not fix my 2015 campagnolo super record gear set
5) there is something inherently wrong with the design, and operation of the 2015 campagnolo super record gear set that they are not willing to divulge, address, share, discuss, fix or remedy.
6) they do not care about a campagnolo customer who purchased a 2015 campagnolo super record gear set or provide them with the minimum effort to achieve positive customer service experience and product support to -
a) offer a workable solution
b) offer a warranty solution

in the alternative campagnolo has offered no solution what-so-ever, and returned the product to customer in broken and non working condition. this leaves any/all combinations of 1-6, as indicated above....otherwise there is a good chance i would would be ridin around on a new 2015 campy super record setup, instead of a new 2015 shimano dura ace di2 setup. digit. :thumbsup:

 

[ccurry007]

When the calipers were put on the Pinarello shell was it in spec? It wouldn't be the first time components were blamed for imperfect frame dimensions.
What other cranks were tried to rule that out? Heck, put the Shimano on there if that's where you are going and make sure the fit is good.
How about bottom brackets? Anything else tried?
What other front derailleurs were tried? That's a 5 minute swap, and again hones in on or rules out a defective derailleur.
In the absence of some of this basic troubleshooting, most of what you said is pretty hard to swallow. I wanna believe at least some of this stuff was done. I know if it was my bike I'd be pulling all sorts of things out of the cabinet (or off of other bikes) to narrow down what the real issue was.

 

[goodboyr]

Water under the bridge. He's gone di2..........

 

[Rokh Hard]

When the calipers were put on the Pinarello shell was it in spec? It wouldn't be the first time components were blamed for imperfect frame dimensions.

donno. not my job, that would have been campagnolos job. (seeing as this was handed over to campagnolo).

i paid for a product that ultimately does not work. campagnolo should repair it, or replace it. they chose not to repair it, or replace it, instead they handed it back to me in worse shape than i brought it to them and said "we cannot duplicate the problem", complete BS and totally unacceptable.

im confident that if the frame was out of spec, campagnolo would have said something to the matter.

What other cranks were tried to rule that out?

campagnolo put another super record crank on there. same issue.

Heck, put the Shimano on there if that's where you are going and make sure the fit is good.

most assuredly

How about bottom brackets? Anything else tried?
What other front derailleurs were tried? That's a 5 minute swap, and again hones in on or rules out a defective derailleur.

i left the bike with them for a week. they could have/should have sorted it out in that time. they didnt, they couldnt and/or they wouldnt. instead they broke the shifter and handed it back to me and said "we could not duplicate". unacceptable. thats the bottom line.

as a customer it is not my responsibility to shop the system around on my own (which i did by calling campgnolo usa and they directed me to said proshop) to a off market mechanic in hopes of getting it sorted out. that is ludicrous, and can you say "warranty void" as the first thing out of their mouths?

it is the job of campagnolo to have their product ready and working when it hits the marketplace. additionally there should be proper procedures and systems in place to provide positive customer service for their products. they failed on all accounts.

it is not the job of the consumer to spend their time and money on R&D/hacking a new campaganolo $3K system in hopes to get it to work. thats nuts. thats why i paid the big bucks for this high in product from campagnolo. best product, best service. campagnolo did not deliver on either accounts.

it is the responsibility of campagnolo to sort out their product malfunctions and not burden the customer/consumer with these details. no excuses.

In the absence of some of this basic troubleshooting, most of what you said is pretty hard to swallow.

yep im with you on that......hence why threw my hands up and spit out the seeming endless spiral of R&D/troubleshooting sessions in which i was getting wrapped/SUCKED up into with campagnolo all in an effort to hack their 2015 super record groupo into a workable condition. not acceptable.

i want a product sorted and working before it hits my wallet. this is what i demand, and this is what i expect especially from a company such as campagnolo with a product they claim that is the best on the market and is most certainly the most expensive.

campagnolo did not meet the demand nor did they satisfy the expectation. they failed.

I wanna believe at least some of this stuff was done. I know if it was my bike I'd be pulling all sorts of things out of the cabinet (or off of other bikes) to narrow down what the real issue was.

personally i do not care what testing they did or did not do. not my problem.

again, i expect the product to work and perform as sold to me without having to troubleshoot it for/with them. no excuses. in the meantime ill be riding shimano di2.

Water under the bridge. He's gone di2..........

correct.

campagnolo had plenty of time to figure it out.....however they failed miserably.

 

[orange_julius]

From all of this, the only thing to infer is this is why lots of people don't bother with Campagnolo's US distribution. You get neither good service nor good price.

Rokh, did you buy the frame and groupset from the same shop? Even if it was a frame that was out of spec, it is the responsibility of the bike shop that attempted the install to check it and point it out to you.

 

[bikerjulio]

From all of this, the only thing to infer is this is why lots of people don't bother with Campagnolo's US distribution. You get neither good service nor good price.

Rokh, did you buy the frame and groupset from the same shop? Even if it was a frame that was out of spec, it is the responsibility of the bike shop that attempted the install to check it and point it out to you.

I agree, that it looks like OP ran into pretty crappy "help". I'd be making Campy HQ aware of this state of affairs. 2 mm of play should have been noticed and fixed immediately. My only comment really is that although criticism of Campy is warranted for having such crappy support in the US, it's not the product or design that's at fault, it's the monkeys who installed incorrectly and the follow-up monkeys who couldn't fix the problem.

 

[Rokh Hard]

I agree, that it looks like OP ran into pretty crappy "help". I'd be making Campy HQ aware of this state of affairs.

they were the help and they are aware.

campy is warranted for having such crappy support in the US, it's not the product or design that's at fault, it's the monkeys who installed incorrectly and the follow-up monkeys who couldn't fix the problem.

crappy = all of the above.

 

[1Butcher]

I agree with Rokh Hard.

If Campagnolo NA is the last source of the help, they should have resolved it sooner.

The problem is that Rokh Hard is not bad mouthing the original bike builder and seems to support that they when above and beyond not to build it correctly.

There are a lot steps that could have been better, but it all originates with a bike builder that should probably stick with Lego's.

You do not send out a bike that can't make a 2 mile road test without it coming back. You should not have to send it to the 'factory' to find out there is 2mm of BB play and the 'factory' should not have taken that long to mention that.

 

[Rokh Hard]

The problem is that Rokh Hard is not bad mouthing the original bike builder and seems to support that they when above and beyond not to build it correctly.

Campagnolo USA cannot or will not resolve the problem, therefore it is unreasonable to expect the dealer to do what the mfg cannot or will not do to support their product, therefore there i have nothing negative to say about the builder Velo Pasadena. in the alternative i have only kudos to Velo Pasadena for their efforts in trying to make Campagnolos product work and for supplying top shelf customer service.

the new and redesigned 2015 Super Record group set was taken back to the original builder 4 times, they could not correct the issue with rebuild and/or adj efforts, afterwhich the new and redesigned 2015 Super Record group set was directed to a Campagnolo USA ProShop, by the head of Campagnolo USA. the recommended ProShop technician in conjunction with Campagnolo USA could not and/or would not resolve the problem. additionally the compounded the problem by breaking the shift lever and not fixing it.

additionally this experience is a red flag for unaddressed (or addressed) design flaws in the new and redesigned 2015 Campagnolo Super Record group set. this is also an red flag for future product support.

 

[1Butcher]

Velo Pasadena sold you a bike that is unrideable from day one. How is that customer service?

They should of told you before you took delivery it was not right. That is why you have a chip on your shoulder.

Somethings just do not work together (such as your case). The tech thought it was good enough to deliver it to you that way. If they had an ounce of care, you would have never had this frustration and would be posting how you love your Di2.

Maybe a name change, Lego Pasadena.

And yes, I agree, Campagnolo could have done a heck of a lot better too. It's not all their fault.

 

[Pirx]

additionally this experience is a red flag for unaddressed (or addressed) design flaws in the new and redesigned 2015 Campagnolo Super Record group set. this is also an red flag for future product support.

Sorry, you are confused. You had a very bad personal experience, and given that experience of yours, it is perfectly reasonable for you personally to give up and switch to a different groupset. However, your personal experience says nothing, and I repeat, positively absolutely nothing, about the design, in general, of any Campagnolo groupsets, or the 2015 groupsets.

I may remind you that there are many thousands of these groupsets out there working perfectly fine on all sorts of bikes, including Pinarellos. As an aside, feel free to do a web search, and let us know how many users you can find reporting anything even remotely like the problems you describe. So, no, there are no "fundamental design flaws" of this groupset, and the very idea of such is ludicrous on the face of it. Understand that designing a front derailleur shifting system is not rocket science, and that the company in question has done this for many decades; longer, in fact, than any of its current competitors.

Like I said before, I feel your pain, but for you to continue babbling about "fundamental design flaws" is like the guy who bought the lemon BMW now going on about how BMW does not know how to design engines, and who takes his experience as a "red flag for unaddressed (or addressed) design flaws in the new and redesigned 2015 BMW engines". All you can do this way is to is make a fool of yourself. Just like that banned poster, I might add, in whose thread you chose to post your experience, for reasons unknown...

 

[orange_julius]

Instead of being upset that the groupset didn't work, you should have been upset that the *complete bike* didn't work. That's what you deserve as a customer when you buy a complete bike. If a frame and a groupset are said to be compatible with each other, this is what I expect, not that I should have picked a different groupset. If I had to, why should that shop be allowed to sell me the groupset that I want, and the frame that I want??

What you should have done is to have me build your bike ;-). My step 1 is always making sure the frame is within spec: BB width, BB face alignment, RD hanger alignment, etc. That way if anything doesn't work I know it's either the groupset or my own damn mistake. Anyway, I invite anybody in Boston area to get in touch with me if they want to install a mechanical Campa groupset.

In all the discussions I don't think frame spec was considered at all.

If the Crankset really had so much lateral play (is that what you meant by slop?) it's very likely the BB shell needed facing, or even more simple the UT BB shell was not threaded straight. This is much easier to do than you think, especially if there is residual paint on the BB shell. Of course, this will then translate to the chainrings, mounted on the cranks, being f-ed up and hence no amount of FD tweaking will solve the fundamental problem.

When you switch groupsets, the mechanic had to uninstall the UT BB cups and install a different one. This could have cleaned the thread that the newer BB cup was then installed correctly.

When setting an FD or RD, always start with the dynamic range of movement, both vertical and horizontal. I always simply actuates the cables by hand instead of through the shifters, that way if something doesn't work I know it's not the shifters, but rather RD/FD alignment/height or limit stops. Then I move on to the shifters.

Now I am really annoyed having typed so many "could have"s and "should have"s. Rokh, really sorry you had s*** mechanics. If something doesn't work, I expect a mechanic to explain to me exactly why, clearly, in mechanical terms. Instead of "this is faulty". Grrrrr ..... !