[aclinjury]

Here are the spec charts. Specifically, I'm looking at the PSR X-TRA 1425 and Wing 23 spokes. Both weigh in at 5.7g each. However, their characteristics are different.
I don't know how to read these charts, so could someone explain how to read these charts?

I'm having a wheelset built. Front rim has 16 spokes, rear has 20, so I'm looking for strong spokes, given the same weight and reasonalbe aeroness.

PSR X-TRA:

PSR X-TRA | Pillar

www.pillarspoke.com

WING:

Wing | Pillar

www.pillarspoke.com

 

[duriel]

The 23's look like they are the strongest, but only by one dot, IMO.
Right hand graph, KGF (force) is the vertical, mm (stretch) is on the horizontal.

 

[aclinjury]

hmm, what about the left hand graph (tension)?

If I'm reading it right, then for x-tra 1425, at 100 kgf, the spoke flexes by 1.2 mm. And for the wing 23, at 100 kgf, it flexes by 2 mm. Does this mean x-tra 1425 spokes make stiffer wheels?
But this intrepretation is not inline with the right hand graph. Left hand graph shows that x-tra 1423 at 100 kgf flexes 2 mm, while wing 23 at 100 kgf flexes by .8 mm, making the wing 23 the stiffer spoke.

so i'm still confused at these graphs

 

[duriel]

Well, it is what it is. I am not a wheel building expert, but have built some wheels that held up reasonably well.
One spoke is stronger, which is what you ask, but it does flex more. So, what's it going to be boy, pick one or the other.
They both look like pretty equal, I doubt one could tell the difference riding them, unless your name is roberto.

 

[aclinjury]

yeah as far as "ultimate strength" goes, the Wing 23 and Xtra 1425 look to be just about equal. However, the 1425 flexes less, so 1425 should make for a stiffer wheel.
Am I right? I just want to know if I'm intrepretating these graphs correctly. If so, I might go for 1425 for stiffer wheels then. I'm asking all this because all my high-end (and low spoke count) wheels use Sapim CXray and all these wheels are too flexy for my taste. So i'm looking to re-lace using stiffer spokes (unfortunately, can't change the spoke ocunt!).

Wheel experts, please chime in.

 

[coachboyd]

The Wing 23 will have a thicker D2 measurement because it has the "Wing" shape versus being a flat bladed.
If you are looking for less wheel flex, then the Wing23 will help a lot with that.

The Wing23s are also rated for e-bike strength so you are good there.

It's going to be a lot stiffer than the CX Rays, and the reinforced elbow helps a ton for long term durability of that elbow.

 

[stan01]

Seems like Pillar spokes are the flavor of the month. I noticed that they are used on a lot of pre-built wheels & I was considering them myself for a project. Spokes are only one aspect to wheel stiffness. Unfortunately in your case, you are experiencing wheel flex & plan on re-lacing with new spokes on existing rims. This will not resolve your wheel flex issues if you plan on re-lacing in the same pattern ie 20 spoke front radial & 24 spoke rear radial nds, 2x ds.

Depending on the hubs, if you are able, I would recommend either 2x or even 3x & skip any radial lacing altogether. This will affect wheel stiffness the most. How you proceed will all depend upon how much wheel flex you are experiencing front & back. Also of note with Pillar spokes is that the threaded portion compared to Sapim's is smaller so the amount of threads available for the nipple to make full contact with is less. So spoke length calculation with Pillar spokes is more critical as well a nipple selection. Hope this helps & good luck.

 

[aclinjury]

The Wing 23 will have a thicker D2 measurement because it has the "Wing" shape versus being a flat bladed.
If you are looking for less wheel flex, then the Wing23 will help a lot with that.

The Wing23s are also rated for e-bike strength so you are good there.

It's going to be a lot stiffer than the CX Rays, and the reinforced elbow helps a ton for long term durability of that elbow.

thanks, just the info i'm seeking

Seems like Pillar spokes are the flavor of the month. I noticed that they are used on a lot of pre-built wheels & I was considering them myself for a project. Spokes are only one aspect to wheel stiffness. Unfortunately in your case, you are experiencing wheel flex & plan on re-lacing with new spokes on existing rims. This will not resolve your wheel flex issues if you plan on re-lacing in the same pattern ie 20 spoke front radial & 24 spoke rear radial nds, 2x ds.

Depending on the hubs, if you are able, I would recommend either 2x or even 3x & skip any radial lacing altogether. This will affect wheel stiffness the most. How you proceed will all depend upon how much wheel flex you are experiencing front & back. Also of note with Pillar spokes is that the threaded portion compared to Sapim's is smaller so the amount of threads available for the nipple to make full contact with is less. So spoke length calculation with Pillar spokes is more critical as well a nipple selection. Hope this helps & good luck.

thanks, the flexing is mainly felt in the rear when sprinting uphill. It's not "end of the world" problem for me, but I broke some spoke on the rear wheel and rim got some damange, so i was able to source a new rim that is 10mm deeper, so I figure with an increase of 10mm in depth and stiffer spokes, I will get a new rear wheel that will be right to my liking. And Pillar spokes are nicely priced.

 

[duriel]

One thing about the 1423's, the breaking strength is flat on top and spoke tension is still on the curve. The Wing isn't flat and the spoke tension is nearly flat on the top of the curve.
From my analysis, the 1423's would be an easier build. IMO, but I'm not a expert on builds.

 

[aclinjury]

I just got off the phone with the guy who's gonna be rebuilding my wheels. He said either choice will be fine with my build (since i'm a lightweight), and he has no problem building with Wing or Xtra spokes. He also mentioned that Wing is Pillar's premium spokes (uses the same steel as CX-rays) and will cost just a tad more (but still cheaper than CX-rays). He also said that he as built plenty of wheelsets for his clients racing crits using the Pillar PSR 1423 bladed spokes (which is cheaper than both the Xtra and Wing), and the PSR 1423 is considered Pillar's "workhorse" spokes that is used in many Chinese wheelsets you see online, and he said even these spokes have gone for 15k miles for his clients without issues.

So, I'm going with Wing 23 spokes for the "premium" factor (why not) and brass nipples (becasue all my wheels with alloy nipples have many of their spokes all seized up in them nipples!).