Tacx Neo v Kickr2

crit_boy · Mar 8, 2018

I now have a kickr2. I have had at least 3 kickrs. Considering getting a neo. However, I would like some input on whether the Neo is actually better than the kickr for my particular issues with the kickr.

Over all of the kickrs I have owned, none of them actually hold a constant power in erg mode.

Here are a couple examples from trainerroad workouts. These are both in erg mode, power matching to my quarq elsa and a pretty constant 85-95 cadence for the about 80 minute and 90 minute rides. Small chain ring, center of cassette, no shifting.

The power data lines (yellow) are from a quarq PM.

As you can see power over the long intervals is not constant (normal is about +/- 15 watts or a 30 watt spread; the larger jumps are around +/- 25 watts or a 50 watt spread). The two workouts below have long interval lengths.

The top one is 10 minutes per step. The bottom one is 8-12 minutes on the longer blocks.

If I turn off power matching, I get the same type of power fluctuations from the kickr. So, it is not caused by the two (crank PM and the kickr) trying to match to each other.

Same thing happens whether or not I do a spin down.

The fluctuations get frustrating. If I come off a long interval barely alive, I want the power to drop right now. If I want to ride at 250 watts for an hour, I don't want bouncing up and down between 230 watts to 280 watts for an hour.

I have also noticed that the flywheel gets HOT. After 45 minutes or so, the flywheel is very hot to the touch. I don't have a temp on it. But, I wouldn't want to drink coffee that is that hot.

If I just rely on the kickr power alone, I get perfectly straight lines. Those perfectly straight lines are not what is really happening. IOW, the kickr thinks it is giving level power, but it is not.

If you have a Neo and a crank based power meter, do you get similar results or does the Neo actually hold more constant power?

Thanks

Jwiffle · Mar 9, 2018

I can't compare to a KickR, but I do have a Neo. And I had a Hammer before. Pretty much with any smart trainer, there will be some fluctuation in erg mode. It's not going to keep a perfectly steady power of say 250 watts. It will go up or down 10-15 watts. The trainers do a very good job overall, but since our power output is not exactly steady, and our cadence is not exactly steady, and it's trying to compensate, there's no way any trainer can make it stay at the exact wattage.

Thre Neo is very good, but from your description, I think you won't find it much different. And your graphs really don't look that bad, looks like kickr does a pretty decent job in erg.

crit_boy · Mar 9, 2018

Not looking for perfect. Be great if they could hold tighter than +/- 10%. Love erg mode for what it does. But, I could hold power levels with much less power variation on an old mag trainer.

Sucks when power fluctuations kill your interval.

tomato coupe · Mar 9, 2018

crit_boy said:
Not looking for perfect. Be great if they could hold tighter than +/- 10%. Love erg mode for what it does. But, I could hold power levels with much less power variation on an old mag trainer.

Does it matter if your power fluctuates 5% instead of 10%?

spdntrxi · Mar 9, 2018

I've had K1-2(borrowed 3) and now the Neo... sorry but it will be the about the same.

crit_boy · Mar 9, 2018

Guess that saves me some money.

jkc · Mar 9, 2018

Check if your trainer smoothing is turned on through the Wahoo app. FWIW, it's just a pretty graph (great psychological boost) and power data transmitted is heavily messaged. I don't have one but suspect under the hood it's behaving the same with or without the smoothing. General response time based on reviews tend to favor Kickr at about 1 second. Feedback I have read for Neo put it at 1-2. I have a Drivo and it's a 2-3 second delay.

Srode · Mar 9, 2018

I see similar variability on my Drivo so I never do erg mode for intervals, it just doesn't work well for me. Instead I set the resistance to get to a cadence I want in the power output range I want. I use my Garmin workouts set to zero target to let me know when an interval is over etc. Once I get that set I can keep the power pretty steady just focussing on the rhythm of my cadence, glancing at 10 second power average from my crank based power meter. Where Erg mode works great is for ramp tests, or an app like Zwift.

crit_boy · Mar 10, 2018

My issue is that the devices are sold with an accuracy of +/- 2% when they seems to be more of +/- 10% to 15% under steady state pedalling.

Didn't want to begin a discussion of erg mode or interval training.

DaveG · Mar 10, 2018

I believe that spec applies to power readings, not holding a level during ERG. I think it would be very hard to create a spec for that because the riders ability to hold power steady is part of the equation

Finx · Mar 11, 2018

Fluctuations in ERG are normal. Power is a function of torque and speed. It had to constantly adjust to your pedal stroke and cadence.

ERG smoothing is only a visual thing. It's there to keep you from wanting to compensate for those fluctuations.

Burnt Toast · Mar 13, 2018

Below is a graph of a 25 min segment from an ERG mode workout using Peripedal and my 2012 CycleOps PowerBeam Pro trainer. The graph does not have any smoothing applied to it and shows a deviation between readings of about a 5 watt max. This was part of a 105 minute long ERG session and is typical of what an ERG mode workout looks like.

crit_boy · Mar 13, 2018

Burnt Toast said:
Below is a graph of a 25 min segment from an ERG mode workout using Peripedal and my 2012 CycleOps PowerBeam Pro trainer. The graph does not have any smoothing applied to it and shows a deviation between readings of about a 5 watt max. This was part of a 105 minute long ERG session and is typical of what an ERG mode workout looks like.

View attachment 322112

Is the graph generated from the trainer or a crank/pedal based PM separate from the trainer?

A kickr graph looks that good when generated by the kickr itself.

dcontrico · Mar 13, 2018

Hi. I ride a first generation Kickr using Trainer Road and have used it with both a quarq and a stages PM in erg mode. If I use power matching I get a nice smooth graph and a smoother ride. If I ride with power matching, my graph looks like yours. Any chance you are not getting out of power matching mode? I remember having a problem like that once early on.

Tacx Neo v Kickr2

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