[Jay Strongbow]

FWIW, another consideration is the length vs number of hills. The total elevation gain may have been the same but out West I did a lot of rides that were up up up up up down down down down. In New England its more up down up down up down up down. They both might have 4000' of gain, but it can be one hill in the mountains where in New England it's 20 hills of 200'.

yeah, that also captures the difference between northern and southern New England. Oddly enough I find I clock faster rides in the big mountains (by NE standards) of NH and VT as compared to the constant up/down further south. Im sure part of that is the relative lack of intersections and stops up north but also it's really hard to develop any type of flow when the climbs and descents are shorter.

Anyway, if it seems like I'm either riding < 15 or > 30 mph most of the time I consider it a hilly ride.