Is it true that Cervelo's are being made in China?
advan
Just like everyone else
Trek, Colnago, Specialized, Bianchi etc.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/managing/strategy/article.jsp?content=20060109_154920_3740
Trek, Colnago, Specialized, Bianchi etc.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/managing/strategy/article.jsp?content=20060109_154920_3740
But what isn't these days? Be glad it's made in China. China QC is now what the taiwanese were 8 years ago. India is now what China was 10 years ago.
Most Trek carbon frames are still made stateside, though a good amount of their aluminum production has gone elsewhere.Rollo Tommassi said:
Cervelos have always been made in China. In fact, a great deal of high end carbon bikes are made in China, Others are made in Taiwan. Very few carbon fiber bicycles come out of Italy or anywhere else. The bicycle industry is very good at deceiving customers where the product is actually made. Cervelo's are a Canadian company that makes their bikes in China but most consumers believe they are a european company that makes bikes in Europe. Even Campagnolo who everyone loves because its Italian is mostly made in Romania now.
Get over it.
I've read (I think here) that Aluminum Cervelo's are made in Taiwan, but carbon is made in China.kdub said:
I think most people know Cervelo are not an european brand, at least any semi informed customer would know. fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter where it's made as long as its as good as you expect and pay for it. if you are worried about a bunch of asian people working over your bike than that is another problem of yours that needs attention... ps don't trust your railway system either...Rubber Lizard said:
If you browse Cervelo's site they admit to using Chinese/Taiwanese factories quite freely, and aside from the R2.5 i don't think there have been that many problems with the manufacturing side of the business.
I would guess that 99% of all the carbon fibre sporting goods (in particular frames) are made in China by either Topkey located in Xiamen China, and/or Ten Tech Composites located in Dongguan China.
Btw the box says MADE IN CHINA IN BIG HUGE FONT. See attached image. Whats the matter with that anyways? It's not like Made in USA is any better. For that matter I would say Taiwan/China and other countries have a bigger skill pool for precision manufacturing with more qualified people than USA or Canada.
Btw the box says MADE IN CHINA IN BIG HUGE FONT. See attached image. Whats the matter with that anyways? It's not like Made in USA is any better. For that matter I would say Taiwan/China and other countries have a bigger skill pool for precision manufacturing with more qualified people than USA or Canada.
G
Of all the things that would surprise me to learn they were made in China - Cervelo frames do not rank near the top of the list.
Now - Ceramic tiles??
I was out yesterday with my wife shopping for tiles - The boxes all say "Made in China"
That would seem to be a lot of weight to be shipping to North America from China!?
Now - Ceramic tiles??
I was out yesterday with my wife shopping for tiles - The boxes all say "Made in China"
That would seem to be a lot of weight to be shipping to North America from China!?
Ceramic tiles is nothing.
A friend who works at an OEM tier 1 car part manufacturer (I will not name names)... for replacement parts such as brake rotors get all the goods made in China.
If you walk into NAPA and buy brake rotors for your car there are many levels and options ranging from white box made in China for 7 dollars a rotor to Made in Italy Brembos for 50 to 60 a rotor.
Usuallly people opt for the 30 dollar made in USA/Made in Canada ones... He tells me there is zero difference between the 7 dollar ones and the 30 dollar ones. What his company does is they buy "scrap" metal from China and make the rotors. Except when they mean scrap they have the foundry cast the scrap metal into shapes of brake rotors. Get them shipped by sea to Canada. Then they take the "scrap" metal in the shapes of brake rotors, does final machining on them, engraves made in Canada on the rotor. Put it in a box also sourced from China, then ships it to the warehouse to sell to NAPA, Canadian Tire, Wagner, Raybestos... whatever.
The quality of the casting for the 30 dollar one and the 7 dollar one is the same since it came from the same foundry. The final machining is impossible to screw up and is not difficult at all.
Anything and everything is made in China these days. It all depends on how honest the corporations are in revealing it.
Even coach purses are made in China. I was at a Coach outlet store in Buffalo New York the past weekend. They were so busy they were opening boxes every 30 mins to refill the shelves. They even had the boxes piled outside in the main store and not in the back. Low and behold... the boxes had "MADE IN CHINA" printed on them. So for all the ladies out there your 400 dollar purse came from the same factory that made the knock off ones you can get on the streets for 40 bucks.
A friend who works at an OEM tier 1 car part manufacturer (I will not name names)... for replacement parts such as brake rotors get all the goods made in China.
If you walk into NAPA and buy brake rotors for your car there are many levels and options ranging from white box made in China for 7 dollars a rotor to Made in Italy Brembos for 50 to 60 a rotor.
Usuallly people opt for the 30 dollar made in USA/Made in Canada ones... He tells me there is zero difference between the 7 dollar ones and the 30 dollar ones. What his company does is they buy "scrap" metal from China and make the rotors. Except when they mean scrap they have the foundry cast the scrap metal into shapes of brake rotors. Get them shipped by sea to Canada. Then they take the "scrap" metal in the shapes of brake rotors, does final machining on them, engraves made in Canada on the rotor. Put it in a box also sourced from China, then ships it to the warehouse to sell to NAPA, Canadian Tire, Wagner, Raybestos... whatever.
The quality of the casting for the 30 dollar one and the 7 dollar one is the same since it came from the same foundry. The final machining is impossible to screw up and is not difficult at all.
Anything and everything is made in China these days. It all depends on how honest the corporations are in revealing it.
Even coach purses are made in China. I was at a Coach outlet store in Buffalo New York the past weekend. They were so busy they were opening boxes every 30 mins to refill the shelves. They even had the boxes piled outside in the main store and not in the back. Low and behold... the boxes had "MADE IN CHINA" printed on them. So for all the ladies out there your 400 dollar purse came from the same factory that made the knock off ones you can get on the streets for 40 bucks.
My dad is an architect who specializes in high end retail stores, Rodeo Drive, Beverly Hills, South Coast Plaza etc.., and has done some outlet stores. If you don't know many luxury high end fashion/bag/shoe companies outlet products are made specifically for the outlets ie: not the same as their regular retail stores. What is not left over stock is made specifically in cheaper factories out of lesser materials. Sometimes the designs are not exactly the same either, ranges from very subtle to non existant in the non outlet retailer. Some of those stores are actually owned by a licensee and the actually brand is only making a percentage.
Even much of the Nike outlet stuff is made specifically for the region and type of customer where the outlet is.
I've been on Asian bikes since the late '70s. I've had two serious problems. I wish my American made cars were as good. I do seriously question the wisdom of pumping money and technology into a Chinese totalitarian system, though. I know both Democrats and Republicans claim it will bring about a democratic transition, but I can't help but think they're main goal is to maintain the status quo by drugging a restless population with cheap consumer goods at home. That said, Chinese goods are so ubiquitous that they're difficult to avoid, and sometimes impossible ('tis the season- try finding non-Chinese made Christmas decorations- which is interesting when you realize you do hard time in a Chinese labor camp for holding private Bible study meetings instead of going to a state run church, and I can fully understand why Chinese believers wouldn't want to go to a church run my avowed atheists. Neither our Bible carrying former president, nor our Bible thumping current president, seem to mind all that much as long as the goods keep flowing in). I'd much prefer to pay a little more for a frame made in Taiwan, or have some forward thinking company like Cervelo explore exporting technology to other places they can get cheap labor and make a real change- like Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and Central America, or maybe using robotics and building a plant at home in Canada- employing fewer people, but paying them more. If you can make the economics work to build cars in North America you should be able to build bikes here. I'll step of my soapbox now.OneGear said:
To all those that think made in China is no biggie, then why doesn't Cervelo stamp "HANDMADE IN CHINA" along the seatstays? Answer: because it isn't good for sales. I recently was deciding between a Cervelo Carbon Soloist SL and another bike made in the USA (Cannondale if you're curious). The prices were roughly the same -- not cheap in either case. I was leaning toward the Cervelo thinking it was made in Canada. Then I asked the LBS guy straight up: "Is the frame made in Canada?" "No," he replied. "It's made in China." There is NFW I'm paying top-dollar for a two-pound frame made in China. That's my personal opinion, disagree all you want, but for the cost of labor in China being a pittance compared to US labor costs, Cervelo shouldn't be charging what they charge for their high-end frames manufactured in the country that is notorious for garbage quality in manufactured products. Just the last few months, we've had poisoned pets from bad pet food, bad toothpaste, and lead-based paint in Thomas the Train toys -- courtesy of Chinese contractors trying to cut costs. So Cervelo expects me to pay $5K and up for a Carbon Soloist SL bike made in China?? Sorry. NFW.
We're comparing high end frames. The R3 and Carbon Soloist -- expensive frames -- are handmade in China. The high-end Trek, Colnago, Specialized and Bianchis are handmade in the USA or Italy -- not China.Rollo Tommassi said:
sorry to come in so late hope u dont mind
l dont care where its made provided the quality is fine for the cost
that said l hope those companies that built their reputations off the sweat of loyal hard working people in their countries of origin have secured the jobs of those that helped build that reputation
it would be immoral that for profit, the company out sourced, charged the same price and then said they would not have been competitive if they had not done so even though they
could have made a profit while making at home
not as big granted
ps the italian made steel cinelli is fine after 9 years and the run out sale cadd8 cannondale is on the way
l dont care where its made provided the quality is fine for the cost
that said l hope those companies that built their reputations off the sweat of loyal hard working people in their countries of origin have secured the jobs of those that helped build that reputation
it would be immoral that for profit, the company out sourced, charged the same price and then said they would not have been competitive if they had not done so even though they
could have made a profit while making at home
not as big granted
ps the italian made steel cinelli is fine after 9 years and the run out sale cadd8 cannondale is on the way
fornaca68 said:
Buddy... you're the one cutting costs. You complain and don't buy goods because you think things are too expensive. The American/Canadian company needs your sales so they have to meet your demands, = cut costs. they tell the Chinese contractors -> cut costs or you lose your business. Chinese contractors cut costs to survive, Americans/Canadians don't do any QA, they just want to make the sales...= dead kids and a not so friendly Thomas the Train. ****, i didn't know you ingest a Cervelo frame... in that case, I'm ditching my Cervelo as well! To blame the Chinese manufacturers and hold the American/Canadian companies as innocents is just plain ignorance. If you sourced out a product with your brand on it, wouldn't you go over there and ensure everything is tip top and worthy of having your sticker on it? Not to mention avoid lawsuits? Any consumer-caring company would. Basic economics.
Chinese products were/are garbage because everyone goes there looking to pay less for the same quality of good. well, sorry, you should know you can't have the best of all worlds... cheap, high quality, service, choose two, cuz 'NFW' you'll have all three. Not to mention the standard of living is raising in china and they can't afford to be financially raped like in the early 90's anymore.. people need more money to survive, and that means wages going up and labour not being as cheap as dirt as Americans are used to exploiting. I presume in the next decade or so American/First World corps will just move onto the next mass population cheap labour source they can find... Hopefully one day they find Africa so they finally get a piece of the pie.
Cervelo shouldn't be charging what they do? Yeah, probably not... but by that strain of thought nothing should cost what it costs, but rather we should buy at cost... lets implement that system and see what happens... wait a minute.. sounds like Socialism... thats going to be real popular with you guys... but buyers dictate the market price... if nobody bought at that price than they wouldn't be charging that price woudl they? market price is whatever the buyers are willing to pay... R&D costs money too you know...not to mention wages and overhead costs for a company the size of Cervelo... who have probably less than 100 people working in engineering and support. Economies of Scale my friend.
I'm sorry, please compare the rides of the top end Chinese Made bikes vs the American Made bikes. Please compare performance, which is what really matters. The difference is virtually marginal. If there is a noticeable difference, you would explain it as a design superiority right? That is why you pay extra money for the frame. If that frame is cervelo, please stop moaning, you are now paying for performance. If that frame is American, you are paying for American superiority :mad2: right??
Real Answer: the uninformed customer cares too much about where something is made, or they are worried about little foreign men working on their toys, which somehow cheapens it when this is the sort of thing that western economy has been based on for the last 150 years. I'd hate to see how these people will be living when they try to boycott all Chinese-made goods in the coming years. either they'll be seriously in debt but living in luxury, or eating humble pie but still oblivious to the facts.fornaca68 said:
I just happen to disagree, I know this will all be ignored and you'll go on happy with your Cannondale, I would probably be too, but I just had to lay it out there. I'm not even going to go into the religion debate.. after 9/11 its almost the same thing here... Think about it.
If it rides nice and you got the dough, buy it. Ability, not Pedigree.
michael desimone said:
very well put.... ok same here i will chime in... as a CERVELO rider and fan... i can really give some first hand experience.... first of all .. everyone here is grown and adults and able to spend their money however they want in whichever way they want.....
like other cyclists im sure everyone who drops major $$ does some amount of research before dropping their hard earned dollars into a bike..
in the case with cervelo i bought into more than the bike... the staff, the company, the style, the engineering, the pro team, my local bike store, etcc..... i found that all to contribute to the bike buying experience, a value i figured that adds more to the overall value of the bike itself...in addition what does cervelo do for 2008 soloists? did they raise the price of their bikes? no... actually the price slightly went down... also with their tri bike. the P2SL
now back to the bike made in china.. is it made in china yes.... is it well made ... yess... im sure cervelo has put in place some type of quality control so that bikes dont come out not meeting some type of standard.... to say that all things that come out of china is junk is a little stereotypical no? and let me guess everything that comes out of the good ol U.S of A is the best of the best? that logic is skewed....
so as it stand right now china has a bad track record...and they have the spotlight on them right now.. but you cant really rule out the entire country because, in reality there are some things that come out built fine, etc...
so once again sorry for this long rant... to borrow a line from above poster "i dont care where its made provided that the quality is fine for the cost"... couldnt agree more... in this case... CERVELO as a whole is worth it to me and my $$$... just like how people find their money is better well spent buying a CUSTOM CALFEE/PARLEE/SACHS, or a MOTOBECANE from BIKEDIRECT, a vintage campy MERCKX from CRAIGSLIST, or a TREK MADONE or SPECIALIZED TARMAC....
different strokes for different folks'
l agree totally and wasnt saying the american suff is any better than anywhere else
l am australian
to say we or anyone country builds things with better quality control would be a blattent genralisation (and as an australian we have laws against saying such things)
l dont know if that coment was directed at me
sometimes when we reply we direct different parts of our replys at different people so stay with me here
l am sorry if you got that impression
when on a trip in southern china in 1989 while dinning in a restraunt l noticed that there was a group of japanese biusness men celabrating a busness deal with a chinese company
my piont being though busness and intelectual exchange things are looking beter in china
qc is beter and the standard of life is better (when l was there there was open povity)
l am shore that the standard of life for my chinese friends still in china has beniffited although they work hard and terrible hours
from what l have read cervelo has done great things and will continue to do great things
they deserve too
they must be working very hard both in asia and in cannada
about the cannondale my LBS recommended it and l have always liked the trail blazing attitude they had when they started
l also like the fact that without inovators such as them and all the other brands regardless of nationality we wouldn't be riding the bikes we ride today at the price we can buy them for or at the quality we buy them for
thank you all those involved in the production of the things l drool over
keep up the good work
ps l have had troblems with QC and design of some American classic stuff and want be buying any more of their stuff (yes l do know where they are made so dont bother replying to that comment)
forgive me for being a little brand loyal and happy with the work that has been carried out in the past
like finding a good mechanic regardless of race (my last one was dutch l think, l dont bother to ask) if someone does good things for me l go back
sorry to cause such a fuss hope that cools a few people off will watch what l say in the future so l dont get as many rants
l come on this site for good conversation
if if my ideas or thoughts differs from other people l am here to talk so lets
but as an adult l do not try and cause flames and can agree to disagree without trying to belittle the person l am replying to
that being said if you look at the number of views these threads get you cant pleas everyone
NB l am not american but l do come from a poor background and hope the no proffesional
workers at the plants are looked after in a market that is going though ever increasing international change
l to buy stuff made in china and taiwan
and from what l hear cevelos are fantastic bikes
while
l am australian
to say we or anyone country builds things with better quality control would be a blattent genralisation (and as an australian we have laws against saying such things)
l dont know if that coment was directed at me
sometimes when we reply we direct different parts of our replys at different people so stay with me here
l am sorry if you got that impression
when on a trip in southern china in 1989 while dinning in a restraunt l noticed that there was a group of japanese biusness men celabrating a busness deal with a chinese company
my piont being though busness and intelectual exchange things are looking beter in china
qc is beter and the standard of life is better (when l was there there was open povity)
l am shore that the standard of life for my chinese friends still in china has beniffited although they work hard and terrible hours
from what l have read cervelo has done great things and will continue to do great things
they deserve too
they must be working very hard both in asia and in cannada
about the cannondale my LBS recommended it and l have always liked the trail blazing attitude they had when they started
l also like the fact that without inovators such as them and all the other brands regardless of nationality we wouldn't be riding the bikes we ride today at the price we can buy them for or at the quality we buy them for
thank you all those involved in the production of the things l drool over
keep up the good work
ps l have had troblems with QC and design of some American classic stuff and want be buying any more of their stuff (yes l do know where they are made so dont bother replying to that comment)
forgive me for being a little brand loyal and happy with the work that has been carried out in the past
like finding a good mechanic regardless of race (my last one was dutch l think, l dont bother to ask) if someone does good things for me l go back
sorry to cause such a fuss hope that cools a few people off will watch what l say in the future so l dont get as many rants
l come on this site for good conversation
if if my ideas or thoughts differs from other people l am here to talk so lets
but as an adult l do not try and cause flames and can agree to disagree without trying to belittle the person l am replying to
that being said if you look at the number of views these threads get you cant pleas everyone
NB l am not american but l do come from a poor background and hope the no proffesional
workers at the plants are looked after in a market that is going though ever increasing international change
l to buy stuff made in china and taiwan
and from what l hear cevelos are fantastic bikes
while
After reading that (admittedly, not all of it -- you had me skim past much of the rhetorical points :incazzato: ), you had my head spinning. But your basic point is that a Chinese-made Cervelo frame (i) does not compromise frame quality and (ii) carries a justifiable pricetag, even with the use of cost-efficient Chinese labor. I respect your opinion, I just disagree, particularly on the pricetag issue. Some on this board will agree with you, while others will not.OneGear said:
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