[neoprocyclist]

I am amazed that this discussion is still going. This is clearly a fake.

The fork on the Dogma 2 is completely different. This is a fake Dogma 2 paint job on a fake Dogma 1.

This not OEM Taiwan or anything else. The OEM stuff is garbage. This is likely made in Guangdong or Fujian, China.

You do realise that 'OEM' stands for Original Equipment Manufacturing? That means you are saying that Pinarello frames (made by an OE manufacturer in Asia) are garbage.

I'm sure that's not what you meant, just pointing out the error

 

[robdamanii]

Putting this link in from another thread - sorry for double posting, but it's very relevant to this thread.

Princes, thieves and make-believe | Pinarello fights for its name «

That is a fantastic article. Most importantly, it illustrates the idea that these frames are not "back door" inventory at all.

Good for pinarello as well.

 

[Cinelli 82220]

You do realise that 'OEM' stands for Original Equipment Manufacturing? That means you are saying that Pinarello frames (made by an OE manufacturer in Asia) are garbage.

I'm sure that's not what you meant, just pointing out the error

Obviously the fakes don't come from the same factory as the real ones. They don't even use the same molds and there are other obvious structural differences.

So OEM means nothing in the context of that ad.

 

[Bill Bikie]

It doesn't even come close as a replica. My cat can tell the difference at 15 feet.

 

[PaxRomana]

You do realise that 'OEM' stands for Original Equipment Manufacturing? That means you are saying that Pinarello frames (made by an OE manufacturer in Asia) are garbage.

I'm sure that's not what you meant, just pointing out the error

Ah, no, what I meant is that the OEM claim in that ad is garbage. You are correct, I was totally unclear!

 

[RBforever]

Definitely a fake.

 

[config]

This one's a fake. Pinarello Dogma | eBay
I just hate it when they try to pass a fake one for a real one.

 

[hamsey]

Config,

How can you tell? Just ordered a Paris from my LBS but would like to be able to tell the difference.

 

[Bill Bikie]

Config,

How can you tell? Just ordered a Paris from my LBS but would like to be able to tell the difference.

It'll probably come from Gita the US distributor for Pinarello. The bike will have a serial number and a packet of info telling you how to register it. I doubt if the shop will knowingly sell you a counterfeit Pinarello.

 

[hamsey]

Bill,

Sorry, I meant the ebay link.

 

[config]

Config,

How can you tell? Just ordered a Paris from my LBS but would like to be able to tell the difference.

Subtle differences. Full internal routing came with the Dogma 2. The entry point for the internal routing on the down tube is closer to the headtube on the real one. The exit point of the internal routing towards the rear derailleur is above the chain-stay and not below (this one isn't even internal). The Dogma 2 also has the notch on the fork/headtube.

 

[aclinjury]

i wonder how the fake one would perform against the real one. Now if the fake one is 90% within of the real's performance, then I'm sorry to say this but lots of fools overpaid for the real ones.

 

[Bill Bikie]

i wonder how the fake one would perform against the real one. Now if the fake one is 90% within of the real's performance, then I'm sorry to say this but lots of fools overpaid for the real ones.

Ten percent is quite a difference in performance, and a competent rider will notice the difference. I'd cut-up a known fake into small peices and trash it. I'd never ride it because I'd expect it to fail at any minute.

 

[aclinjury]

Ten percent is quite a difference in performance, and a competent rider will notice the difference. I'd cut-up a known fake into small peices and trash it. I'd never ride it because I'd expect it to fail at any minute.

Hmm while neither you nor me have any valid data comparison between fake vs. real, I guess we're just debating.

But there are a lot (A LOT) of chinese carbon frames (see chinese Ebay carbon frame thread) being raced in crits, and these crit guys do abuse their bikes, they don't baby their bikes. If these frames fail at any minute, then we'd expect to see much more discussion of the failures in the "chinese Ebay carbon frames" thread. While there are failures, but are reported faliures mainly due to

1) lower quality craftsmanship?
2) statistical? (higher amount of frames used will lead to higher reported failures)
3) abusive environment? (crit riders throwing a chinese frame into a crit isn't looking to baby it like Pina riders taking his baby out for a weekend ride with the guys)

I'd be very curious to see an objective comparison between the fake and real frames. If the fake frames do turn out to be complete trash, then it could be to Pinarello's advantage to advertise it, no? But personally, I have to think that Pina probably has done such comparison in their headquarter and the results were not as drastic as they had hope, and if the results were in fact within 1-2%, it could work against Pinarello.

Now I don't support chinese fake stuff when they use a trademark logo, but I have to admit that the fake stuff do make me wonder about the value/performance ratio of the high-end bikes. Unlike a high-end exotic car, high-end carbon bicycles can be made in a relatively low tech facility, and to me, that does make me question about the value high-end bikes made in low tech "Far East" facility.

 

[Bill Bikie]

Hmm while neither you nor me have any valid data comparison between fake vs. real, I guess we're just debating.

But there are a lot (A LOT) of chinese carbon frames (see chinese Ebay carbon frame thread) being raced in crits, and these crit guys do abuse their bikes, they don't baby their bikes. If these frames fail at any minute, then we'd expect to see much more discussion of the failures in the "chinese Ebay carbon frames" thread. While there are failures, but are reported faliures mainly due to

1) lower quality craftsmanship?
2) statistical? (higher amount of frames used will lead to higher reported failures)
3) abusive environment? (crit riders throwing a chinese frame into a crit isn't looking to baby it like Pina riders taking his baby out for a weekend ride with the guys)

I'd be very curious to see an objective comparison between the fake and real frames. If the fake frames do turn out to be complete trash, then it could be to Pinarello's advantage to advertise it, no? But personally, I have to think that Pina probably has done such comparison in their headquarter and the results were not as drastic as they had hope, and if the results were in fact within 1-2%, it could work against Pinarello.

Now I don't support chinese fake stuff when they use a trademark logo, but I have to admit that the fake stuff do make me wonder about the value/performance ratio of the high-end bikes. Unlike a high-end exotic car, high-end carbon bicycles can be made in a relatively low tech facility, and to me, that does make me question about the value high-end bikes made in low tech "Far East" facility.

I'll opt for the real thing with a legit serial no. and warranty. My Pinarello was made in Tiawan and shiped back to Italy for finishing (not mainland China).

If the fakes are so good you'd think they would generate a following prompting the faker to come out with their own label.

A helpful hint: only order from a bike bike shop licensed to sell your brand.

 

[vladvm]

if it has pinarello label, it is fake. if it is unpainted it is legit.

 

[Bill Bikie]

if it has pinarello label, it is fake. if it is unpainted it is legit.

Please explain your post.

Do you mean if it has a sticky back label it is fake, but if it has the stylized "P" silver badge on the head tube it is ligit? If what is unpainted?

 

[Bill Bikie]

if it has pinarello label, it is fake. if it is unpainted it is legit.

Please explain your post.

Do you mean if it has a sticky back label it is fake, but if it has the stylized "P" silver badge on the head tube it is ligit? And what are talking about being unpainted? Or maybe you mean a label that hasn't been clear coated indicates a forgery?

 

[Cinelli 82220]

^^ If it is a non-Pinarello frame with Pina stickers, it's a fake.

If it's a plain unmarked frame that isn't pretending to be anything else, then it's legit.

The key is, don't pretend to be something you aren't.

 

[Hiro11]

Hmm while neither you nor me have any valid data comparison between fake vs. real, I guess we're just debating.

But there are a lot (A LOT) of chinese carbon frames (see chinese Ebay carbon frame thread) being raced in crits, and these crit guys do abuse their bikes, they don't baby their bikes. If these frames fail at any minute, then we'd expect to see much more discussion of the failures in the "chinese Ebay carbon frames" thread. While there are failures, but are reported faliures mainly due to

1) lower quality craftsmanship?
2) statistical? (higher amount of frames used will lead to higher reported failures)
3) abusive environment? (crit riders throwing a chinese frame into a crit isn't looking to baby it like Pina riders taking his baby out for a weekend ride with the guys)

I'd be very curious to see an objective comparison between the fake and real frames. If the fake frames do turn out to be complete trash, then it could be to Pinarello's advantage to advertise it, no? But personally, I have to think that Pina probably has done such comparison in their headquarter and the results were not as drastic as they had hope, and if the results were in fact within 1-2%, it could work against Pinarello.

Now I don't support chinese fake stuff when they use a trademark logo, but I have to admit that the fake stuff do make me wonder about the value/performance ratio of the high-end bikes. Unlike a high-end exotic car, high-end carbon bicycles can be made in a relatively low tech facility, and to me, that does make me question about the value high-end bikes made in low tech "Far East" facility.

This is my attitude. I bought a Chinese copy of a Scott Foil and love it. However, I'd never get one with fake Scott decals. Mine's matte black.

Having said that, this frame has convinced me that Chinese carbon is good stuff from a pure performance perspective. It's a straight-up race bike. It was easy to build up and seems durable. I had a Wisconsin-made Madone before this and the Chinese frame is easily as well made, if not better. Only, this one costs less than $600 delivered. At these prices, I can easily afford to ride the s&!t out of my bike and not worry if I crash.

When Pinarello (and other manufacturers) see fit to charge thousands of dollars for off-the-peg Taiwanese frames, you can see why people start looking elsewhere. The days of mega-buck non-custom carbon are rapidly approaching an end, IMO.